[arel]

Thank you for these videos. They are extremely helpful.

So far, I've listened to three of the videos: the "Don't Talk to the Police" video by the lawyer, and then the one by the cop. Then I listened to the video about the proper handling of a police stop.

That third video is worth listening to several times.

It's so sad and frightening that cops play such head games with you, and that they can lie to you with impunity. But it's not supposed to be a level playing field.

[mustmove]

Blog(not mine) all about traffic revenue. TheNewspaper.Com: Front Page All sorts of appalling stuff enjoy.

[RunawayJim]

In CT when you fight it, you go to a state's attorney who offers you a lower fine. You then have the option to go to trial. In RI, you go to traffic court in front of a judge who almost always lowers the fine, especially if you go/went to Providence College (he's an alum) or can get on his good side (he's a bit of a pushover).

$214 seems high for a stop sign, though that is more dangerous to public safety than doing 76 in a 65. The highest I paid in traffic violations was $289 for doing 81 in a 65 (I was lucky he didn't catch me going faster). Had I been doing between 76 and 80, it would have been $269. That was in CT where fines tend to be higher. I got a $90 fine for "following too close" when I was in a 4 car accident on the highway and only hit the guy in front of me because the car that rear-ended me hit me with such force (she was trying to do 80 in traffic that was doing 45) my car was pushed into the one in front of me. The state's attorney dropped it to $35, I didn't have time to fight it in a trial.

[tijlover]

Originally Posted by GypsySoul22

Arel, I assume you have VT plates & license? The police are ALWAYS stopping out of state plates here.

I treasure these moving violation forums across the country, very educational for unsuspecting, would-be travelers. I continue to learn which states to avoid or be extra-extra careful.

[Logs and Dogs]

When I was in college I received 2 similar speeding tickets, one in RI and one in CT (I should have never dated that girl from CT, she was nothing but trouble….but I digress)……….they were both for doing 78mph in a 55 and then a 65. In CT I went in and as stated before it was a amicable guy sitting at an institutionally drab table in the corner of the court room and everyone sat in old church pews waiting their turn. You walk over and negotiate the fine…………”If I lower this to 65 in a 55 can you pay it on your way out?”

RI was another story………..full court………..so I argued and had my $175 ticket reduced by $50………and I walked out of the court room feeling pretty good, then I had to check in with the court clerk and was charged a $50 court fee. So basically the judge knew I had no idea and knew I would pay the state the same thing as the original fine……………SOBs…..I still laugh about that. Friggin’ kids.

I come from a family of police officers and most cops are decent folks, however you have some that are on power trips with the worst of their kind being like that recently retired constable from Island Pond that single handedly ruined the local tourist economy.

[GypsySoul22]

Originally Posted by tijlover

I treasure these moving violation forums across the country, very educational for unsuspecting, would-be travelers. I continue to learn which states to avoid or be extra-extra careful.

I've noticed this as a national thing (you know the horror stories of the NYers driving through Virginia or Georgia or NC getting stopped as policy). Up here when we are on the highway and see a car pulled over, the first thing I say to my husband is "Is that guy from MASS or Connecticut?" (Both states have 'bad drivers IMO). Most likely, it's one of the two.

[harry chickpea]

In my opinion...
$200 is NOT a "regressive" fine, nor is it excessive. Moving violations are NOT parking tickets.

If you overstay parking in almost any major city, your ticket will be $35 and up. That is just to get your attention (and make money and keep business moving in downtown areas). No one could get hurt from your parking an hour too long. You expect a moving violation to carry a similar fine? That is unreasonable.

I've been in accidents. I've seen too many accidents. $200 is a cheap wake-up call for you. My wife recently backed into a new car at about ONE mile per hour, and my trailer hitch dented it. Cost of repair to the car was almost $1,000. Our insurance went up about 30% because of that small ding. Take the amount you pay for your insurance per year, and multiply by 1.3 to see what even a MINOR accident will really cost you when you are at fault. Then ask your agent how much your insurance would be if you were at fault in an intersection accident because you blew a light or stop sign. (If they even continued to insure you rather than throwing you into a high risk pool.)

Regressive? The reality is that there are a substantial number of drivers that either have NO insurance or are under-insured. Why? Often because they can't pay for it. Just what keeps those (often young) drivers driving even reasonably safely? One thing, and one thing only - the thought that they might get stopped by a cop for a traffic violation or have to pay a fine.

Most folks who have any money at all already understand that accidents cost money short term AND long term. They also tend to drive cars they don't want to get dinged up, where those of us who don't have a lot of money don't consider a dent or two a big deal. A substantial fine helps equalize things. In other words, rich people who have a lot to lose tend to be a lot more cautious than teens in a beater who think they are invincible and haven't yet figured out the social contract.

I will let you in on a little secret that has served me in good stead over the years. When I drive, I try to drive with total awareness of my surroundings. If I get a ticket, the ONLY reason I get a ticket is because I haven't been aware enough of what is around me -including what is behind me at an intersection). That lack of awareness is also what gets people killed. If I get a ticket (and I only had one in the past 20 years), I don't blame the cop and I don't blame the system. I blame MYSELF for not being aware.

In Alabama there is a three second rule on stop signs. You pull up to a stop sign, look right and left and count to three and ONLY THEN do you go through the intersection. Everyone does it. The number of intersection accidents here is so far fewer than in Florida that it is amazing.

Pay the fine. Quityerbitchin. There are PLENTY of real injustices out there that need to be addressed. All you are doing is trying to avoid - at a core level - that you are responsible for what happened. Deal with it, learn, and move on.

[arel]

There are one or two towns in Texas where if they stop you they seize all your valuables. The practice was profiled on the news, at least on CNN. In at least one case, the driver sued and won. Now, maybe because of the publicity, there is a new DA in at least one of those towns. He seemed to oppose the practice and to want to clean things up. BTW, they tended to target black and Hispanic drivers.

As for my mishap Tuesday night, I'm finding that the responses I get divide into basically two camps, both on here and on iBrattleboro. One camp is more sympathetic towards the driver (me) who was hit with a huge fine for missing a stop sign. The other camp is a lot less sympathetic. This camp says you did the deed, so now just suck it up, take responsibility, pay the fine, and stop whining.

In other words, some see me as a victim, while others say that I am not the victim at all, but the perpetrator.

If you're interested in following the iBratttleboro comments, you can use the link on the original post for this thread.

Me? I'm of two minds, especially since I've calmed down from my original shock, absorbed others' input and have been able to think things through. I resent the high fine, especially since I ran the stop sign by mistake and not deliberately. But the price is trivial compared to what it would have been had I caused a serious accident. And, just as importantly, if not more so, others could have been harmed and forced to suffer losses of their own.

I am now contemplating my next steps.

[arctichomesteader]

Originally Posted by arel

There are one or two towns in Texas where if they stop you they seize all your valuables. The practice was profiled on the news, at least on CNN. In at least one case, the driver sued and won. Now, maybe because of the publicity, there is a new DA in at least one of those towns. He seemed to oppose the practice and to want to clean things up. BTW, they tended to target black and Hispanic drivers.

As for my mishap Tuesday night, I'm finding that the responses I get divide into basically two camps, both on here and on iBrattleboro. One camp is more sympathetic towards the driver (me) who was hit with a huge fine for missing a stop sign. The other camp is a lot less sympathetic. This camp says you did the deed, so now just suck it up, take responsibility, pay the fine, and stop whining.

In other words, some see me as a victim, while others say that I am not the victim at all, but the perpetrator.

If you're interested in following the iBratttleboro comments, you can use the link on the original post for this thread.

Me? I'm of two minds, especially since I've calmed down from my original shock, absorbed others' input and have been able to think things through. I resent the high fine, especially since I ran the stop sign by mistake and not deliberately. But the price is trivial compared to what it would have been had I caused a serious accident. And, just as importantly, if not more so, others could have been harmed and forced to suffer losses of their own.

I am now contemplating my next steps.

Asset forfeiture. Still going on all around the country. Even if you're not convicted of any crime, they can still steal anything you own from you. They bring the case against the item being serized not you. Even if you win in court, you'll have spent thousands fighting the government. The dirty little secret of law enforcement...I can't believe it's been allowed to happen:

The Forfeiture Racket - Reason Magazine

[DanBev]

Originally Posted by arel

I'm going to speak to the town about this.

I can see the need to enforce traffic laws, which we all need to stay safe on the roads.

But this fine really seems excessive. And I am concerned about its regressiveness. It can seriously harm people with little money, but not at all affect people with a lot of money.

But thanks for letting me know the range of fines for speeding. Missing a stop sign is potentially more dangerous for the public than going a little bit over the speed limit.

Not necessarily related but when you say regressive,what about property taxes no regard as to whether you have a dime in the bank or ability to pay.