Which country has a larger subtropical zone? (recorded, city, freezing)
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Wiki is not accurate. It is using regional maps to determine the averages. Someone interpreted those maps and put the data on Wiki. I don't trust it.Here is the Met Office climate data for Portsmouth. The data is for Solent which is around 5 miles away as the crow flies from the heart of Portsmouth. That station is right on the water, and somehow you are telling me that Portsmouth a few miles away jumps from 3.3C to 5.1C based on regional maps? And you can't compare that station to Norfolk Intl Airport which is 6 miles from downtown Norfolk. You know that at night airports are cold holes with all that open area. Anyway, I doubt very much that the numbers for Portsmouth at night would be any warmer than Solent right on the coast itself.
And here is the location of that station. I entered the coordinates into google earth. The station is sitting right on the water 5 miles from the port in Portmsouth. Now tell me somehow that would be any different for winter min temps than Portsmouth. How does the average jump from 3.3C to 5.1C based on regional maps? Norfolk's data is from the airport around 6 miles from the downtown of Norfolk. Not even a fair comparison. I assure you downtown Norfolk is warmer than their airport.
B87 are you serious? I clicked on the link in Wiki for that data you are posting. And the map below came up. You can't notice one bit of difference between Portsmouth and Solent on a map that scale. And you certainly can't determine the winter min with any certainty except to say 2.8 to 5.2C. Quite a spread. Solent looks exactly the same as Portmsouth in the map below.
And see the difference in location between Norfolk airport and the downtown.
For the 83rd time the Met Office stats are for Lee-On-The-Solent, several miles away from Portsmouth in an area which is completely un-representative of Portsmouth! It is a bit like using the Heathrow data for central London...
The data on Wikipedia is accurate, it is from the now closed Met Office weather station in Southsea, Portsmouth. The data isn't publically available but I have access to the Met Ofice database & I can assure you they are the correct figures.
Portsmouth is a city, on an island & an extremely built up city at that. It is the most densely populated place in the UK, yes even more so than central London, & the twelfth most densely populated place in Europe. It is this that makes it warmer than Lee-On-The-Solent due to the 'urban warming', the 'Solent' weather station may be near to the water, but as is typical of many UK weather stations it is situated at an airbase, so is an un-natural open expanse of land & as such records temperatures lower than in Portsmouth itself.
Those maps on the Met Office site just use a general scale as to what the temperatures are between, they are not as accurate as using the actual data from a weather station itself, they even show Shanklin & Bognor Regis as having less sunshine than they actually receive too, when the figures from the respective weather stations are even posted on the Met Office website!
I really don't know why you find it so hard to understand how Portsmouth is warmer than 'Solent'
I'm not being sensitive about the climate or making a big deal, we simply pointed out that making your own personal assumptions on a climate from ONE visit is a bit, well stupid
Of course you are entitled to think London's climate is a cold, damp mess, but we are equally entitled to disagree with you...
London's climate can most certainly be a cold damp mess at times. Of course not all the time. But sometimes I get frustrated dealing with B87 and the way he tweaks data to suit a purpose. You don't get to use regional mapped data from Wiki to prove some point when compared to hard data from an airport.
I'm still waiting for him to provide evidence that UK sunshine hours were being underestimated by the CS machines. I posed articles and links from the Met Office explaining that it was actually the opposite. The 120W standard from the WMO using electronic sun sensors in the UK are giving lower numbers than CS, not higher, and your Met Office is raising them before posting to keep the record consistent. It seems due to constantly passing clouds, which you obviously have a lot of in your climate, the burn on the CS cards is artificially extended beyond what is actually happening with the sun.
For the 83rd time the Met Office stats are for Lee-On-The-Solent, several miles away from Portsmouth in an area which is completely un-representative of Portsmouth! It is a bit like using the Heathrow data for central London...
The data on Wikipedia is accurate, it is from the now closed Met Office weather station in Southsea, Portsmouth. The data isn't publically available but I have access to the Met Ofice database & I can assure you they are the correct figures.
Portsmouth is a city, on an island & an extremely built up city at that. It is the most densely populated place in the UK, yes even more so than central London, & the twelfth most densely populated place in Europe. It is this that makes it warmer than Lee-On-The-Solent due to the 'urban warming', the 'Solent' weather station may be near to the water, but as is typical of many UK weather stations it is situated at an airbase, so is an un-natural open expanse of land & as such records temperatures lower than in Portsmouth itself.
Those maps on the Met Office site just use a general scale as to what the temperatures are between, they are not as accurate as using the actual data from a weather station itself, they even show Shanklin & Bognor Regis as having less sunshine than they actually receive too, when the figures from the respective weather stations are even posted on the Met Office website!
I really don't know why you find it so hard to understand how Portsmouth is warmer than 'Solent'
So you are comparing one giant urban heat island to an airport miles from the downtown of Norfolk. Do you believe downtown Norfolk is warmer at night in winter than their airport?
London is not cold at all in the winter. I can say that form personal experience. I was traveling to India using British Airways in December. I left my coat in NYC by accident and thought I would be fked once I reached London. To my surprise, it was 50 F, and I was comfortable in short sleeves outside. Granted I only spent 10 minutes outside.
No offence but how on earth can you judge a climate with a stop over of a few hours?
London's climate can most certainly be a cold damp mess at times. Of course not all the time. But sometimes I get frustrated dealing with B87 and the way he tweaks data to suit a purpose. You don't get to use regional mapped data from Wiki to prove some point when compared to hard data from an airport.
The 120W standard from the WMO using electronic sun sensors in the UK are giving lower numbers than CS, not higher,
So why do all other stations in Europe or anywhere that has switched from CS to electronic, show an increase in sunshine hours? I have posted an article here before that showed an increase in sunshine hours (2650hrs) with a low recording threshold of 100W. The CS value was only 1612 hours.
london's climate can most certainly be a cold damp mess at times. Of course not all the time. But sometimes i get frustrated dealing with b87 and the way he tweaks data to suit a purpose. you don't get to use regional mapped data from wiki to prove some point when compared to hard data from an airport.
I'm still waiting for him to provide evidence that uk sunshine hours were being underestimated by the cs machines. I posed articles and links from the met office explaining that it was actually the opposite. The 120w standard from the wmo using electronic sun sensors in the uk are giving lower numbers than cs, not higher, and your met office is raising them before posting to keep the record consistent. It seems due to constantly passing clouds, which you obviously have a lot of in your climate, the burn on the cs cards is artificially extended beyond what is actually happening with the sun.
I find it hard to believe that even they would have an average low of 6c in the winter. That seems impossible.
Not impossible as it is fact, unlike the snow covered 'mountain' behind your house
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom77falcons
So you are comparing one giant urban heat island to an airport miles from the downtown of Norfolk. Do you believe downtown Norfolk is warmer at night in winter than their airport?
What does this have to do with me pointing out the difference between the Solent weather station data & Portsmouth??
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It is a bit like using the Heathrow data for central London...
