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Morocco has existed one form or another since the 8th century. Back then most of Spain (or what would become Spain) was Muslim too
With that mood, we can say that Spain became a country after the fall of the Roman Empire lol. Spain name dates from Spania, 552 BC... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spania
The actual Morocco exists since 1667. Ceuta since 1415. I see a long way there...
Spain wasn't Muslim, but conquered. Spain always was a Christian country after the settlement of the Roman Empire, Spain was conquered by Arabs, as any other European country which became conquered, they already had a culture on. That doesn't mean that the population became Muslim and left their Christianity and they became automatically darker skinned. lol, Ukraine, Romania, etc and other European countries were conquered by the Ottomans not much time ago (until the 17-18th century?) and they're still European nowadays. Same in Spain, most of Spain in 12th century was already Christian again!
It's based on history books that lots of people were claiming to be Muslims to not pay tributes while in their homes they were still Christians, as they were baptizing their sons. Arabs had the luck of conquering with a very big army, a very wounded region, as Iberia at that time was extremely wounded by the last tribes which were just fighting against eachothers. I don't know much about Portugal, but Spain needed more than 2 centuries to make a decent army to start gaining territory again. By the 12th century, most of Spain was already Christian again. Only the Caliphate of Granada lasted 7 centuries.
The people who would become the Spanish, mainly Castilians, existed in the far north of the country, they gradually regained more and more land. They gradually pushed the Muslims out over a period of 700 years. What we now know as "Spain", didn't come into being until about the late 15th, early 16th century.
Morocco had existed since 788AD. It is the modern dynasty that came into being in 1666, not the nation. Cueta was seized in a war between Portugal and Morocco in 1415.
The people who would become the Spanish, mainly Castilians, existed in the far north of the country, they gradually regained more and more land. They gradually pushed the Muslims out over a period of 700 years. What we now know as "Spain", didn't come into being until about the late 15th, early 16th century.
Morocco had existed since 788AD. It is the modern dynasty that came into being in 1666, not the nation. Cueta was seized in a war between Portugal and Morocco in 1415.
And of course we're talking about actual Morocco. Between those ages that region wasn't known as Morocco lol, they had many names. The actual one is from the 17th century.
Btw, that 7 century thing is something just in Granada tho...
About Ceuta I did a mistake then, I knew that it became Christian in 1415 but didn't know that by Portuguese people. Btw, that's a long time before the 1660s. Melilla was conquered by Spain in 1497 tho.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lommaren
Yeah I know. Ceuta and Melilla for the Spaniards and Gibraltar for the Brits!
Deal, El Junter?
I don't care about Gibraltar. It has nothing useful for Spain.
The southernmost Iberian point is Tarifa. The best climate is outside of Gibraltar. The best forests from Andalucia are in Central Cádiz, etc. So nothing valuable for me.
Ok, in fact it's something very good for the locals from there as they can buy things without taxes. And it's good for the UK as the British people can have their own British resort in Spain. So good for both!
The only thing I want from Gibraltar is... their monkeys! Southern Spain had native monkeys much time ago, but now just Gibraltar has them! They're the only European native monkeys!
And of course we're talking about actual Morocco. Between those ages that region wasn't known as Morocco lol, the actual one is from the 17th century.
Btw, that 7 century thing is something just in Granada tho...
Spania was a name that the Byzantines gave to the province, just as the Romans called the province of Britain, "Brittania". They were provinces, not nations.
Morocco began in 788AD under the Idrisid dynasty. Modern Morocco is a political, linguistic, cultural and geographic continuation of this.
Spania was a name that the Byzantines gave to the province, just as the Romans called the province of Britain, "Brittania". They were provinces, not nations.
Morocco began in 788AD under the Idrisid dynasty. Modern Morocco is a political, linguistic, cultural and geographic continuation of this.
Whatever the case, Cueta was seized from Morocco.
And Gibraltar was seized from Spain and i'm not claiming today that Gibraltar is mine, just as the Spanish government is not claiming the city of Gibraltar lol.
In fact not even the conservative and very nationalistic Spanish parties care about Gibraltar. Morocco has to do the same, as it's not their territory from much longer time ago!
Besides, they're reconquesting it slowly. Do you know how, right? Demographics. Take a look at the demographics of Ceuta. 15-20 years maybe? And Spanish people won't be anymore majority in Ceuta.
And Gibraltar was seized from Spain and i'm not claiming today that Gibraltar is mine, just as the Spanish government is not crying for Gibraltar lol.
In fact not even the conservative and very nationalistic Spanish parties care about Gibraltar. Morocco has to do the same, as it's not their territory from much longer time ago!
Besides, they're reconquesting it slowly. Do you know how, right? Demographics. Take a look at the demographics of Ceuta. 20 years maybe? And Spanish people won't be anymore majority in Ceuta.
I know Gibraltar was seized from Spain, but I'm just disputing your initial argument that Cueta was never Moroccon.
I know Gibraltar was seized from Spain, but I'm just disputing your initial argument that Cueta was never Moroccon.
Mate I knew it was Moroccan, obviously it was being on their territory. I was pointing that it was a city belonging to the Almohade Caliphate (Arabs), not from a country called Morocco, then the whole region was called Maghrib. I was just poiting out that the country which we know nowadays as Morocco exists just from 2 centuries after Ceuta was not a Moroccan city, but as you taught me tonight, Ceuta was Portuguese for 2 centuries, I didn't know that tho, I thought that Ceuta was Spanish since the 15th century. So it wasn't Arab since the 15th century, but it didn't became Spain until the 17th! Good.
No mate I knew it was Moroccan, obviously it was being on their territory. Besides i'm pointing that it was to the Almohade Caliphate (Arabs), not from a country called Morocco, then the whole region was called Maghrib. I was just poiting out that the country which we know nowadays as Morocco exists just from 2 centuries after Ceuta was not a Moroccan city, but as you taught me tonight, Ceuta was Portuguese for 2 centuries, I didn't know that tho.
Morocco was founded by Arabs who came to the area, hence why they speak Arabic rather than a native language. Just like Mexico was founded by Spaniards, but you wouldn't call them Spanish I think it swore allegiance to the wider caliphate, but was autonomous.
The changing names aren't important since it maintained its general character, many countries have changed their names, even in recent times.
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