Does a city really need snow for it to have "true winters"? (snowfalls, hot)

[atsizat]

Originally Posted by lommaren

I stood still outside in one layer of a long-sleeved shirt and jeans in -5C for 20 minutes once. When I got back in I had to be buried in multiple layers and underneath a blanket for an hour.

Serious business

When it is -2℃ outside, I wear "Jean" and walk for an hour wishing that it was colder. It sucks to live in İzmit

[EverBlack]

Originally Posted by Baba_Wethu

Outside of the tropics, all places have winters and summers. However, London doesn't have a true winter just like Reykjavik doesn't have a true summer if you ask me. I think Malmö is on the border of not having true winters so around the 0'C isotherm, because leafless trees without snow is more like fall or spring if you ask me.

Same for me. Winter simply means the time of the year with the coldest temperatures, and summer means the time of the year with the hottest temperatures. I think many people here wouldn't consider Nuuk to have "true summers", so why isn't the opposite accepted?

Originally Posted by Ethereal

Except, many people are not you. I am confident to say that most people in the world would consider 8C to be cold (maybe besides Canadians and Russians).

Sure, 8C is not frigid. But it is cool enough for a knit-sweater, gloves and beanies, especially when dry westerlies are whooshing. Heck, my 60 year old grandfather, who visited us from a quasi-continental place like Berlin in the 90s, would be wearing such attire in our 8C nights. A lot us in here do, including many recent refugees from the colder regions of Iraq (the north), Syria and Jordan, which generally have colder winters (with 6C-10C highs) and even receive snowfall. So why would they dress up like that here when the daytime temp is around 13C (much warmer than their native winter weather)?

I don't know, everyone wears that they want, I guess?
I'm not sure if Sydney actually feels colder than everywhere else.

Originally Posted by Shalop

Yes, obviously. Cloudy 5C averages do not even remotely justify usage of the term "cold".

I think "cold" means that people feel uncomfortable because of it. I don't even shiver at 5 °C nor my hands go numb so why is that "cold"?

Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220

I consider 5°C to be cold, our normal low doesn't even get that cold.

Then, people from Greenland should consider 22 °C to be "hot"?

Originally Posted by stan4

What about sub-freezing temps with no snow?

What if it snows sometimes?


How many times does it have to snow?


How many inches of precipitation?


See...it gets murky...

In fact everyone has their criteria whether or not a place has "true winters"

Originally Posted by forgotten username

5c is hardly barbecue weather, especially with 4c dewpoints and clouds everywhere. Or maybe you start sweating in Alberta in February

I don't do barbecue because I don't like it but the part of "you start sweating in Alberta in February" doesn't make sense. According to that, either you feel cold or start sweating, and comfortable temperatures don't exist

Originally Posted by pepe3797

Too many snowtards on here.

Nice snowmanteau

Originally Posted by TorshavnSunHolidays

and LONDON does get a winter - just becaiuse it doesn't snow .

It is cold enough in the DAY to wear jackets and put the heating on

It's subjective. We all know that every non tropical place gets a winter and a summer, but considering them to be "true" or not is up to us. London can have true winters for some, and for some it has "fake" () winters.

Originally Posted by TorshavnSunHolidays

Ha Ha -

Even those Canadians and Russians from the colder zones would still wear a jacket - it's mild, but not THAT mild most of the time in winter lol - light sweater is OK if only popping round the corner etc - you won't exactly freeze to death

London: January 8, 2017:



This is short sleeves weather to me

Originally Posted by Razza94

Anyone who thinks London winters aren't cold should try walking around there on a January evening in Shorts and T-Shirt. I doubt you'd last very long.

People don't think it's cold because of sensible clothing and central heating.

When I type "London" on Wunderground, "Southend-on-Sea" appears, but I guess it's a very similar climate to London. Maybe shorts are excessive, but a T-Shirt could definitely be worn during these days:

January 7, 2017:



January 8, 2017:



February 14, 2017:



February 15, 2017:



February 16, 2017:



February 17, 2017:



February 19, 2017:



February 20, 2017 (seriously this isn't cold at all ):

Originally Posted by Ethereal

Can't speak for cloudy 5C temps, but clear 5C in here are relatively frigid. Your ears and nose goes sore, and your head hurts (and that's if you're not wearing head gear). You're crazy if you're wearing light clothing in those conditions. If you're "tough" and want to boast about how you can wear light clothing in such conditions then by all means do so, but don't make it like as if everybody is like you.

That's because 5 °C in Sydney is dry (I think). A humid 5 °C is very comfortable and the things you said don't happen at all (^-^)

Originally Posted by Baba_Wethu

In true winters you'll be cold even if you wear long johns, proper winter jackets and gloves, and no matter how much clothes you put on, you'll still be really cold in your face. That's a true winter, not "oh no, I can't wear my shorts today".

I agree. People in London think that its winter is cold. I checked on Wunderground and, sure, it get its fair share of cold (below freezing) evenings, and surely I wouldn't wear light clothing. But there are also 8 °C, very light wind, rainless evenings. Seriously, is that considered cold?

Originally Posted by lommaren

I stood still outside in one layer of a long-sleeved shirt and jeans in -5C for 20 minutes once. When I got back in I had to be buried in multiple layers and underneath a blanket for an hour.

Serious business

Yes. -5 °C is cold even for me. But 8 °C is not

Originally Posted by Ethereal

People do seem cozy in their proper winter clothing even in freezing places such as Russia and Canada, where they walk around rather comfortably in the city streets. Are Russian and Canadian winters now not "true" just because people wear proper gear and are desensitized to the frigid conditions?

It depends on the day. -1 °C, sure, you can be comfortable in winter clothing. I like breathing that air. But when it's like -20 °C it's very hard to be comfortable. When I go outside I get a mild headache, like when I eat ice cream too fast (those who experienced it will probably understand me). I can stay 30 minutes outside but staying outside for several hours will make you feel very cold.

People from climates that never get below freezing might see videos where the temperature is below -30 °C and see that life goes as usual and people don't complain. They might think that temperature is comfortable, but it is not.

Originally Posted by Baba_Wethu

Those are the places I just said have true winters, and have you tried it? If you're wearing proper winter attire WITH winter cover trousers, you're gonna be warm, but your face will still be uncomfortably cold. Also, in these places, you're never gonna be truly comfortable unless you wear cover trousers. If you're not warm unless you're wearing cover trousers, you have a true winter. If you can walk around in jeans without long johns outside for an hour, it's not a true winter.

Ah, finally, someone who knows what it's really like thank you!

Originally Posted by Shalop

Nothing to do with being tough. Maybe people in Sydney dress and feel like that where 5C happens once a year. In NYC, jeans and a hoodie or light jacket are common in 5C. I see school kids wearing shorts down way below 5C. Nobody goes out of their way for that kind of mundane temp.

Maybe 5 °C in Sydney is dry and feels colder? If it's sunny, windless and 5 °C I can wear a long sleeved cotton T-Shirt and nothing bad happens. Maybe in Sydney I would wear more because it's dry? I don't know.

Originally Posted by atsizat

When it is -2℃ outside, I wear "Jean" and walk for an hour wishing that it was colder. It sucks to live in İzmit

-2 °C feels nice

[Razza94]

Originally Posted by EverBlack

When I type "London" on Wunderground, "Southend-on-Sea" appears, but I guess it's a very similar climate to London. Maybe shorts are excessive, but a T-Shirt could definitely be worn during these days:

But those are examplees of above-average winter temperatures in London, relative to the time of day that they were measured. The average low for London in winter is about 2C, colder nights often drop below 0C. I can only speak for myself, but I certainly wouldn't wear shorts in those temperatures

[EverBlack]

Originally Posted by Razza94

The average low for London in winter is about 2C, colder nights often drop below 0C. I can only speak for myself, but I certainly wouldn't wear shorts in those temperatures

I wouldn't too. Not even a T-Shirt on most days. But SOME days yes.

Like this:

January 8, 2017:



I would have worn a T-Shirt (but not shorts)

[TorshavnSunHolidays]

8c/9c etc in winter is OK in the South east UK because it is dry - north west of Egland is atrocious and worse than the McQuarie islands ....rain,rain ,rain .... i have said it so many times . With a jacket on it doesn't feel that cold . It's the gloominess that is the killer . 8 or 9 consecutive days without blue skies - dark ,heavy grey is a horrible colour !

Night times on the other hand can get very cold after a clear day - below freezing . People don't go out when it's that cold - folk like those temps anyway as it's an excuse to put on the log burner.

Folk moan when it is too mild for that reason -' just paid £XXXX for a effin log burner and i 'm not getting much use out of it ' lmao

[chicagogeorge]

Yes, but more importantly the climate needs to be able to maintain snow on the ground.

[yankeefan93]

A true winter doesn't need to have snow but it must be cold enough to maintain a snow pack if it does in my opinion.

[Pincho-toot]

Originally Posted by alex985

Very noticeable difference. Going from low-mid 90s in summer with high humidity to dry mid-70s with 50s at night in winter is also quite a noticeable difference. I really don't understand people down here who make comments like "January is no different from July" and stuff like that. You'd have to be the least observant person in this planet or a total moron not to notice. Especially considering the sun angle difference.

Foliage wise its the same, though. The only way to tell the difference in seasons in Miami by photographs is if you see certain holiday decorations. There's barely any difference between May-October in weather, as well. January certainly. No way in hell will you see a 50 degree morning in July in Miami lol.

[forgotten username]

Originally Posted by EverBlack

That's because 5 °C in Sydney is dry (I think). A humid 5 °C is very comfortable and the things you said don't happen at all (^-^)

I think exactly the contrary.

Anyway judging by your appreciation of london winter days, you're welcome to spend some winter days in a tshirt here too:



Bring some sandals as well.

[Pincho-toot]

A true winter, yea. But I think more than anything, there needs to be a period where deciduous trees are bare and dormant and frost and freezes occur on occasion.