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Really? So you wouldn't consider somewhere with a dry and sunny winter to be subtropical then (like southern or central Queensland)? I'm also surprised people don't consider mediterranean climates to be subtropical. I personally think rainfall shouldn't have anything to do whether a climate is classified as subtropical or not. Even desert climates that meet the temperature criteria should be labeled as a "subtropical desert climate", in my opinion.
So if you don't think subtropical climates should have a dry season, what sort of climate would you consider somewhere like Mackay to have?
Dry and sunny winters can be subtropical imo. I also don't see why dry seasons exclude places from being subtropical. I was meaning convective/cumulus, as opposed to wet winters where stratus cloud dominate- typically cool oceanic climates
Joe90's description seems pretty much identical to a tropical landscape to me.
Which is the reason I consider the term should relate to flora/fauna foremost. My description can equally apply to some climates that are currently regarded as Oceanic -Cfb, as well as Csa, Csb, Cfa, Cwa and Cwb. The ability to have that looks is their common ground, the subtropical look.
I dont like trewartha's method i find Koppen more reliable and makes more sense see koppen never intended making the Cfa or Csa subtropical he wanted it to mean mesothermal but i would think Victoria is closer to subtropical than Scilly islands reason being is Scilly is pretty much the definition of Oceanic climate where Victoria is clearly a cold summer Mediterranean if you moved over here you would understand, there are some Gulf islands off the coast of the island which can go entire winters without freezing. Victoria's climate is very similar to San Francisco precipitation wise and temperature. Here's a good example of a victoria station Statistics: Victoria Hartland, BC, Canada - The Weather Network
I think your half right…and half wrong:
I think your right , and from what it seems like Koppen’s “C” or mesothermal climates were only labeled “Mild Temperate Rainy”….NEVER was the word “subtropical” used. Somehow, someway, people think that the Koppen C climate group = subtropical. This is not true and was not his intention.
I disagree..that Koppen’s climate classification system is as accurate or as “real world” as the much later Trewartha system. Most of the early criticisms of the Koppen system was that the “C” or mesothermal mid climates (from 30 to 60 latitude N/S) were much too broad: Places like New Orleans and Brisbane were in the same climate group as cities like Denver or London - lol. Another large criticism was that there was also not enough distinction between warm and cool West Coast climates. For example Perth or Los Anglese were located in the same climate group as NW Europe or South Island, New Zealand. Koppen just lumped all these regions into one climate group called “Mild Temperate Rainy”.
Trewartha solved this criticism of the Koppen system by breaking down the middle latitudes down into 3 climate groups (Subtropical (C), Temperate (D), and Boreal (E). The result was a climate map that seemed to make much more real world sense. The copies are not great, but here is the world map of Trewartha's climate classifaction and some closeup's of areas of the world:
I just find that the weather in the PNW is quite different than that of London and just the feel....
Less rain in the summer, and a higher sun angle, would probably explain the different feel. Going by gardening forums in both regions, the Gulf Islands seems to have a slight advantage over London for growing tender plants.
Those Trewartha maps might need up dating. Melbourne is well within the Trewartha threshold.
Less rain in the summer, and a higher sun angle, would probably explain the different feel. Going by gardening forums in both regions, the Gulf Islands seems to have a slight advantage over London for growing tender plants.
Those Trewartha maps might need up dating. Melbourne is well within the Trewartha threshold.
I think London has the advantage over the Gulf Islands but only due to the heat island effect. I think if you compare the outer suburbs outside of London, the Gulf Islands have the slight advantage.
However, if one compares the mildest parts of the UK in winter vs. the mildest parts of the PNW, then UK winds hands down. I still don't think it makes either of them subtropical though... even if Scilly for example is hardiness zone 10 which is the same as Central Florida or much of the California coast.
I just find that the weather in the PNW is quite different than that of London and just the feel....
The fact that Victoria is Mediterranean and London is Oceanic says a lot. In addition, even the parts of the PacNW that aren't Csb climates have more rain in winter, less rain in summer vs. winter, and more rain in general than London does. London is cloudy year-round whereas most of the PacNW is quite sunny in summer.
I just find that the weather in the PNW is quite different than that of London and just the feel....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patricius Maximus
The fact that Victoria is Mediterranean and London is Oceanic says a lot. In addition, even the parts of the PacNW that aren't Csb climates have more rain in winter, less rain in summer vs. winter, and more rain in general than London does. London is cloudy year-round whereas most of the PacNW is quite sunny in summer.
From what I’ve read, they say that we should keep in mind that the difference within the same climate groups are of degree – not kind. I guess this means that when one is considering climates in the same group (in this case Temperate Oceanic/Do) London might have more of this…the PNW more of that… South Island, New Zealand less of this…etc – but in the main they are all birds of the same feather . In terms of London and the PNW, I have been to both regions, and the solar angle is likely the biggest player. PNW cities are several hundred miles south of London, and even more from the northern UK.
Quote:
Originally Posted by deneb78
I think London has the advantage over the Gulf Islands but only due to the heat island effect. I think if you compare the outer suburbs outside of London, the Gulf Islands have the slight advantage.
However, if one compares the mildest parts of the UK in winter vs. the mildest parts of the PNW, then UK winds hands down. I still don't think it makes either of them subtropical though... even if Scilly for example is hardiness zone 10 which is the same as Central Florida or much of the California coast.
I would agree 100%. The zone maps take into account only annual minimum temperature - not the frequency of those minimum temperatures (or their duration), not winter daily highs, rainfall amount/distribution…etc. I do a fair amount of gardening, and it is the 12 month annual cycle of climate that a plant/or tree has that often will ultimately influence how well they flourish or struggle. The winter lows/length of the frost free season/and plants that can be grown in Scilly while impressive, does not make it subtropical.
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