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I am not surprised. It is human nature to be a little taken aback and quite possibly offended if somone gets a call/ voice mail regarding a reference regarding a former coworker/employee that they haven't heard from in a year or more.
Their reaction may very well be "why should I bother", I haven't heard from them in 2 years and now some stranger is calling about them, they couldn't bother to contact me first and ask me directly.
Very foolish to list someone as reference without a) getting permission from the reference and b) contacting the reference giving them a heads up that a company will be calling about them.
All your friend can do is "prompt" these people(although she shouldn't have to) to make sure that their references are in fact people who are aware they are references and to let them know a phone call is coming their way.
I gave one of my references a heads up to let him know the name of the woman who will be contacting him and he still didn't respond. LOL
She is going to attempt to suggest that the recruiters make it a part of their conversations with the applicants. I also advised that emails might also help. Not sure, but possibly, as being contacted via email may not be as intrusive feeling.
I think you are right, as the more I thin about it, the more I am sure I would be annoyed if I got a reference call I was not expecting.
I thikn she is just frustrated because she can't get any support to change the process but feels like people see the stop in the process at her...
I gave one of my references a heads up to let him know the name of the woman who will be contacting him and he still didn't respond. LOL
Well you might want to cross him off your reference list. If he said to you he was willing to help you and didn't, you might even contact him and ask why.
That is pretty pathetic of him, because as you know getting the reference is usually the last piece of the puzzle before the job offer.
The tables could turn and one day he might have needed you to be his reference.
She is going to attempt to suggest that the recruiters make it a part of their conversations with the applicants. I also advised that emails might also help. Not sure, but possibly, as being contacted via email may not be as intrusive feeling.
I think you are right, as the more I thin about it, the more I am sure I would be annoyed if I got a reference call I was not expecting.
I thikn she is just frustrated because she can't get any support to change the process but feels like people see the stop in the process at her...
That is all she can really do. It a shame but a lot of people today just don't know the basics of interviewing these days.
They don't know how to dress properly, they can't answer basic questions, and don't seem to know that you don't put people down as references without talking to them first.
As dumb as it sounds, mention to these applicants that references need to be people who will be expecting to hear from us.
Of course you have to wonder about what kind of employee they will make if they have to be prompted to do something that should be common sense.
To the OP. I don't really know why you got so defensive - I was just giving my opinion that work is about an end product, and not just an action. If I were in your friend's shoes, I would just change the process.
Look, obviously it is important to the business to staff these positions right? Take some ownership of the aspect you control and change this bottleneck. Otherwise, you're just spinning wheels and - really - not doing anything. If you're not doing anything at work, then you're not doing your job.
Step 1. Call the references. Leave an upbeat message outlining what you're looking for from the contact, let them know you need a return call within 48 hours to complete this process and employ the person they're providing a reference for. If you have an email address as well, send a message to the same effect. Make a second attempt the following day. Document both contacts. If 48 hours passes without a return call, notify the recruiter that their applicant is not qualified, as they do not have valid references. Document this as well via email. In this email, notify the recruiter that you are contacting the applicant to get updated contact info for their references. Give the applicant one opportunity to provide updated information. Repeat the process.
Step 2. You now have a documented trail of contacts and attempted contacts. You will have one of two outcomes, valid references or invalid references. Notify the recruiter of your finding and move the file on to the appropriate department (HR for hiring or the recruiter as a "dead" file).
You have now created a guarantee that you will move a file in 96 hours maximum and clearly deliniated how the process works. Once you start bouncing applicants back to recruiters as unfit for hire, I bet they start contributing to the issue by ensuring that the references provided are quality contacts.
Just my .02, but I'm willing to bet that your boss will appreciate the action you've taken to speed the process up, while you have created a timing that will establish a finished work product.
Well you might want to cross him off your reference list. If he said to you he was willing to help you and didn't, you might even contact him and ask why.
That is pretty pathetic of him, because as you know getting the reference is usually the last piece of the puzzle before the job offer.
The tables could turn and one day he might have needed you to be his reference.
The idiot claimed his mother and brother was sick but that was a lie because after I asked him did you get the email from the lady yet? He said no so I forwarded him the email she sent me stating that she contacted him but no reply. That's when he was forced to come up with a lie about sick relatives and he is not cut out my life forever. If I walked toward him on the street tomorrow I wouldn't say a word.
To the OP. I don't really know why you got so defensive - I was just giving my opinion that work is about an end product, and not just an action. If I were in your friend's shoes, I would just change the process.
Look, obviously it is important to the business to staff these positions right? Take some ownership of the aspect you control and change this bottleneck. Otherwise, you're just spinning wheels and - really - not doing anything. If you're not doing anything at work, then you're not doing your job.
I have no idea if she is taking ownership or not. I have known her for a while, and I am guessing she does...
Step 1. Call the references. Leave an upbeat message outlining what you're looking for from the contact, let them know you need a return call within 48 hours to complete this process and employ the person they're providing a reference for. If you have an email address as well, send a message to the same effect. Make a second attempt the following day.
I know she does this. A total of 3 calls before she tells the recruiter that there has been no answer or followup from the person given as a reference. Also, I know if she gets a reference she emails the recruiter, tells them she got one, asks if they need others, and gives the status of the other references, #of calls, etc...glad she is answering texts and reading this as a guest or I would not be able to respond....nameless, non-forum member friend, you owe me a drink
Document both contacts. If 48 hours passes without a return call, notify the recruiter that their applicant is not qualified, as they do not have valid references. Document this as well via email.
I know she does this, as well as lets the recruiter know when there are issues with the reference such as a bad number, no longer there, etc.
In this email, notify the recruiter that you are contacting the applicant to get updated contact info for their references. Give the applicant one opportunity to provide updated information. Repeat the process.
It is my understanding, and this is where the main issue is, that this is something she is NOT supposed to do. They are certified by someone (some commission or some such...don't ask me who) and the hiring decisions and the financial decisions are supposed to be made by different people. As a result, until the references are confirmed, she is to have nothing to do with the candidate and communication to the candidate should ideally be through the recruiter. The recruiters are also not to take references. Not sure who this is through, but this is how she has explained it and one of the reasons there is a disconnect...the recruiters are free to go on to something else once the references have been passed to her, so they only sort of care about the references...until there is an opening for the person that is, then they care.
Step 2. You now have a documented trail of contacts and attempted contacts.
She does this. Puts notes directly on the reference form regarding attempted contacts.
You will have one of two outcomes, valid references or invalid references. Notify the recruiter of your finding and move the file on to the appropriate department (HR for hiring or the recruiter as a "dead" file).
You have now created a guarantee that you will move a file in 96 hours maximum and clearly deliniated how the process works. Once you start bouncing applicants back to recruiters as unfit for hire, I bet they start contributing to the issue by ensuring that the references provided are quality contacts.
Nope. They already get bounced back as not able to get references for. And when she suggests that they are a little more forceful with the applicants, she gets grief from the recruiters and is told to just call the references and see what she gets and let them know if there are issues. Took her months to get them to ask for 3 instead of 2 contacts, as if the client requires 2 and one is bad, if they have only sent 2 its an automatic issue. I told her to start calling. if there was an issue with one reference to send it back to the recruiter and tell them that as the client needs a total of 2 and they only have one that may be useable, to send it back when the recruiter gets another contact.
Just my .02, but I'm willing to bet that your boss will appreciate the action you've taken to speed the process up, while you have created a timing that will establish a finished work product.
Well, first things first - we are all anonymous here. I have yet to see you post your name and address.
Secondly, there was nothing in either of my posts that was cruel. In a society where everyone believes they are the most important person around and you should be rewarded with flowers and praise just because you work hard, I guess I see why you feel constructive criticism is "unnecessarily cruel".
Finally, of course it's true that employers do not always do things that you agree with, and each employee must decide if that is a deal breaker or not. But you have indicated that she has tried to improve a flawed process, they have ignored her on her suggestions, and they are now calling her out on her poor results due to that exact same process she attempted to improve. If that isn't a deal breaker, I can't imagine what is.
Some genuine praise once in a while is wonderful to hear! It is always good to get nice feedback!
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