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Whenever I do a phone interview, I notice that they always give a salary range, for the sake of example let's just say 45K-48K. I always respond saying that's a good range/I care more about gaining experience.
But at what point do you start negotiating? After you've been offered the job?
How do you ask for more than the minimum 45K?
I asked one of my friends about it and she said to just take what they offer, but another friend said to be more aggressive about it. I haven't had any job offers yet (obviously) but I want to be prepared for when it happens.
Don't negotiate until you've been offered a position. This is your first job in your field out of college, right? That does make it a little harder since you don't have a previous salary to jump from. Try and do some research about the national average but more importantly the local average pay. If the company is WAY under the local average, then yes, attempt to negotiate. Bring evidence, mention what other local employers are paying and don't go too high.
If they are offering around the average (say the average is 46k and they offer you 45k) I honestly would just take it. It's your first job and you don't have any experience in your corner. You've got to be careful with this. If they offer and you start negotiating outrageous amounts or too aggressively, they could rescind the offer and move on.
I've always accepted the offer given to me until my last job. But I had several years of employment behind me and I was genuinely ready to walk away if they didn't come up on the offer. I had the bargaining power and we both knew it. After they offered I asked if there was room for negotiation. They told me no for various reasons and I asked for a few days to run the numbers and think it over. I went back to them and said I just couldn't make it work. Literally 15 minutes later they were emailing me back asking what it would take to get me. The key is that I was willing to walk away....if you aren't able/willing to walk, be very careful about negotiating.
Another trick I've found (and hate) is that they ask you what you expect to make. Again, know the market rate so you aren't too far off. Say too low and they may offer but you have no bargaining power; too high and they may not pursue you.
EDIT: Remember that there's more to it than just salary. Look at the whole picture, vacation days, benefits, ect. Someone may pay a little higher but have awful bennies or small PTO.
Don't negotiate until you've been offered a position. This is your first job in your field out of college, right? That does make it a little harder since you don't have a previous salary to jump from. Try and do some research about the national average but more importantly the local average pay. If the company is WAY under the local average, then yes, attempt to negotiate. Bring evidence, mention what other local employers are paying and don't go too high.
If they are offering around the average (say the average is 46k and they offer you 45k) I honestly would just take it. It's your first job and you don't have any experience in your corner. You've got to be careful with this. If they offer and you start negotiating outrageous amounts or too aggressively, they could rescind the offer and move on.
I've always accepted the offer given to me until my last job. But I had several years of employment behind me and I was genuinely ready to walk away if they didn't come up on the offer. I had the bargaining power and we both knew it. After they offered I asked if there was room for negotiation. They told me no for various reasons and I asked for a few days to run the numbers and think it over. I went back to them and said I just couldn't make it work. Literally 15 minutes later they were emailing me back asking what it would take to get me. The key is that I was willing to walk away....if you aren't able/willing to walk, be very careful about negotiating.
Edit: since I'd have to move for this job, could I work that into negotiating the salary? Maybe ask for a higher salary to make up for relocating? Because it's a small company and this is a low level position, I'm almost 100% sure they wouldn't pay for the relocation costs.
Another trick I've found (and hate) is that they ask you what you expect to make. Again, know the market rate so you aren't too far off. Say too low and they may offer but you have no bargaining power; too high and they may not pursue you.
EDIT: Remember that there's more to it than just salary. Look at the whole picture, vacation days, benefits, ect. Someone may pay a little higher but have awful bennies or small PTO.
Thanks! I'd say the benefits for this job sound good, but nothing over the top extraordinary, definitely fair and comparable to what others get.
I'm going to just come right out and say it... one of the jobs I'm interviewing for has a salary range of 21-25K. BUT! It's in a city with a low cost of living (I live in the south) and if I got the job I already have a roommate situation lined up IF it works out.
I'd love to end up more towards 25K than 21K (obviously). Just not sure how to go about that if I do get a job offer from them. The average adult in the metro area of this city makes about $32-35K/year, but I would definitely be able to make 21K work (best thing about the south is the low COL), it would just mean I wouldn't have much disposable income for a year.
Edit: could I use relocation as "leverage" in negotiating a higher salary more towards the 25 range? It's a small company and this is a low level position, so I'm almost 100% sure they wouldn't pay relocation costs (which isn't a huge deal because everything fits in my SUV). But, could I bring that up? Or would that be a dumb move?
Your relocation isn't leverage in negotiating salary, so I wouldn't bring that up. Honestly, with your first job offer, it is hard to come up with reasons why you deserve to be at the higher end of the scale. Perhaps you could bring up things you have done in internships or classroom settings as a means for negotiation? In one of my courses, I had the chance to use a banking research software in order to valuate a privately-held bank, so I was able to leverage this in a job offer by stating, "After using X software in a classroom setting, I feel as though I would be able to contribute knowledge of said software to help the company in its endeavors." It worked for me, but it was only because I had a tangible reason (it also didn't hurt that I interned there during summer of junior year).
Think about it this way: the low end of the range isn't terrible when it is your first position (and it is probably more typical to be at the lower end of the scale since you don't yet have past experience to gauge your value), because you will be able to use what you have learned at that position on your next position. I've talked about this a lot but I had received a job offer from an investment banking firm in November of 2007 during my senior year of college. By May, that firm had failed and I had a job offer rescinded (luckily, before I signed any leases). I took the first full time job that I could get making 21K per year as a data entry file clerk and then later worked as collections operations analyst. At that company, I was able to do many things that most people don't have the chance to do in their first job: help to shape policy, work on system upgrades, create the model for our cash management department to analyze uses of cash on a daily, weekly, monthly basis. I didn't get paid very well by the time I left 2.5 years later, but the experiences that I had there are the ones that I talk about during interviews that I had this summer when I was seeking a new opportunity.... I didn't get paid a lot then, but I got a lot of experience. That experience was invaluable because it helped me to get the next opportunity, which helped me to get to the place I am currently.... at this point, you probably need the experience more than anything else.
1. I wouldn't really attempt to negotiate much on first job out of college.
2. Its fair to ask relocation or to begin getting paid the day you move since driving time there for work.
My last project paid for my relocation and whe n the project finished they paid for me to move afterwards, which was perfect because my new company also paid for me to move there, so old and new company paid me 55 cents a mail plus my hourly pay from both jobs, and per diem. I worked the system well on that one haha. If I were to get laid off now they would pay me my relocation to go 10hrs back to Texas.
Mobilization is a common expense that should be covered.
Your relocation isn't leverage in negotiating salary, so I wouldn't bring that up. Honestly, with your first job offer, it is hard to come up with reasons why you deserve to be at the higher end of the scale. Perhaps you could bring up things you have done in internships or classroom settings as a means for negotiation? In one of my courses, I had the chance to use a banking research software in order to valuate a privately-held bank, so I was able to leverage this in a job offer by stating, "After using X software in a classroom setting, I feel as though I would be able to contribute knowledge of said software to help the company in its endeavors." It worked for me, but it was only because I had a tangible reason (it also didn't hurt that I interned there during summer of junior year).
Think about it this way: the low end of the range isn't terrible when it is your first position (and it is probably more typical to be at the lower end of the scale since you don't yet have past experience to gauge your value), because you will be able to use what you have learned at that position on your next position. I've talked about this a lot but I had received a job offer from an investment banking firm in November of 2007 during my senior year of college. By May, that firm had failed and I had a job offer rescinded (luckily, before I signed any leases). I took the first full time job that I could get making 21K per year as a data entry file clerk and then later worked as collections operations analyst. At that company, I was able to do many things that most people don't have the chance to do in their first job: help to shape policy, work on system upgrades, create the model for our cash management department to analyze uses of cash on a daily, weekly, monthly basis. I didn't get paid very well by the time I left 2.5 years later, but the experiences that I had there are the ones that I talk about during interviews that I had this summer when I was seeking a new opportunity.... I didn't get paid a lot then, but I got a lot of experience. That experience was invaluable because it helped me to get the next opportunity, which helped me to get to the place I am currently.... at this point, you probably need the experience more than anything else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by houstan-dan
1. I wouldn't really attempt to negotiate much on first job out of college.
2. Its fair to ask relocation or to begin getting paid the day you move since driving time there for work.
My last project paid for my relocation and whe n the project finished they paid for me to move afterwards, which was perfect because my new company also paid for me to move there, so old and new company paid me 55 cents a mail plus my hourly pay from both jobs, and per diem. I worked the system well on that one haha. If I were to get laid off now they would pay me my relocation to go 10hrs back to Texas.
Mobilization is a common expense that should be covered.
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Cool, thanks! Yeah, I definitely COULD make 21K work and was hesitant about negotiating.
One more question: when I had my phone interview this week with the company, the person was aware that I was out of state and asked when I'd be able to start if I was extended an offer. I didn't want to say "TOMORROW!" or anything crazy, so I kind of asked when they were looking to hire and they said "Would sometime after thanksgiving, like December 1st work?" so I agreed to that. But I told my friend about that and she was skeptical, she said I should've said next week. Was agreeing to Dec. 1 a bad idea and in the face to face interview I have, should I suggest that I could start before that?
Cool, thanks! Yeah, I definitely COULD make 21K work and was hesitant about negotiating.
One more question: when I had my phone interview this week with the company, the person was aware that I was out of state and asked when I'd be able to start if I was extended an offer. I didn't want to say "TOMORROW!" or anything crazy, so I kind of asked when they were looking to hire and they said "Would sometime after thanksgiving, like December 1st work?" so I agreed to that. But I told my friend about that and she was skeptical, she said I should've said next week. Was agreeing to Dec. 1 a bad idea and in the face to face interview I have, should I suggest that I could start before that?
Most companies are dead next week. They don't want anyone starting. And most companies would expect people to say they need at least two weeks anyway.
Cool, thanks! Yeah, I definitely COULD make 21K work and was hesitant about negotiating.
One more question: when I had my phone interview this week with the company, the person was aware that I was out of state and asked when I'd be able to start if I was extended an offer. I didn't want to say "TOMORROW!" or anything crazy, so I kind of asked when they were looking to hire and they said "Would sometime after thanksgiving, like December 1st work?" so I agreed to that. But I told my friend about that and she was skeptical, she said I should've said next week. Was agreeing to Dec. 1 a bad idea and in the face to face interview I have, should I suggest that I could start before that?
Saying Dec 1st is fine...esp if you are from out of state. Honestly they were probably asking not to see if you'd start right away, but more to see how long you were going to ask for move time.
Sometimes people need to give 2 weeks notice and then a week to move, some people might try and take advantage of the timing and see if they can get a Jan 1 start date and avoid working around the holidays (more useful if you are currently working), ect. I've always said that next time I start a new job I'm taking a month off in between for vacation....but it never works out since no one wants to wait that long and I don't want to give up the offers.
They just didn't want someone who might need several weeks to start. Your answer was fine.
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BUT! It's in a city with a low cost of living (I live in the south) and if I got the job I already have a roommate situation lined up IF it works out. 
That experience was invaluable because it helped me to get the next opportunity, which helped me to get to the place I am currently.... at this point, you probably need the experience more than anything else.
