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Now, "just to play devil's advocate," the proverbial "other side" of the argument would reply that those years the U.S. was the only economy in the world capable of meaningful production (and thus $ale$ galore)...not so any more.
How could American businesses compete globally if "even" a 50% tax rate was mandated (and successfully collected)?
Indeed -- too bad Joe Schmoe's been so thoroughly brainwashed due to liberalism's dropping the economic ball in favor of race/sex-based grievance politics, providing right-wingers' opening into Joe Schmoe's brain....
Again, to ask for the proverbial Other Side: how could you prevent the brain-drain that might result as talent chases top compensation overseas (rather like the U.S. losing out business prospects to China over human rights stipulations and so forth)?
Why do we need to compete globally? We have a large enough land mass and population we don't NEED to trade other than for VERY few things like certain rare earth element ore.
Any company found using US intellectual property would be literally destroyed by the military (drones, cruise missles, etc).
If we took a cronicles of ridic stance we could get back to a great America but we have to be ruthless with companies and nations who challenge us.
Why do we need to compete globally? We have a large enough land mass and population we don't NEED to trade other than for VERY few things like certain rare earth element ore.
You know...that's the same question the Ming Emperor asked -- and he called back his fleet from their voyages of exploration and so China fell behind for two to three hundred years after being the most advanced society on earth (America was only discovered, you'll recall, because Europeans wanted to get to China faster and were looking for such a route)....
His successors waved off subsequent European traders, smug in their beliefs that China had everything it could ever need.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsflyer
Any company found using US intellectual property would be literally destroyed by the military (drones, cruise missles, etc).
Uh...what???
Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsflyer
If we took a cronicles of ridic stance we could get back to a great America but we have to be ruthless with companies and nations who challenge us.
I don't know what "a cronicles of ridic stance" is, nor what you mean by "ruthless" or "challenge," but let's just say that even an elephant can be taken down by ants....
You know...that's the same question the Ming Emperor asked -- and he called back his fleet from their voyages of exploration and so China fell behind for two to three hundred years after being the most advanced society on earth (America was only discovered, you'll recall, because Europeans wanted to get to China faster and were looking for such a route)....
His successors waved off subsequent European traders, smug in their beliefs that China had everything it could ever need.
Uh...what???
I don't know what "a cronicles of ridic stance" is, nor what you mean by "ruthless" or "challenge," but let's just say that even an elephant can be taken down by ants....
For instance if a company, in their indignant smug attitude, go to another country and set up shop using US intellectual property and refuse to cease and desist we simply blow the plant up. If the US and its people continue to tolerate theft of intellectual property we will surely fall apart.
When there remains no more motive to put intellectual property on the market and it instead sits on a bench because its easy to steal once its out then society will atrophy. There has to be teeth for people that are scoff law to these sorts of things. Its really that simple.
Also its possible to maintain the power house of exchange of ideas within the boarders of the USA, allowing SELECT people in (not who ever a corporation wants to bring in for cheap pseudo slave labor in quazi skilled jobs). "Globalism" as it exists today is another word for exploitation, however, if it is very tightly managed we can get the benefits of attracting the truly bright and inspired and weed out the greedy fat hogs looking to exploit.
Cronicals of ridich is a movie where the military had such overwhelming power that if there was non compliance they literally wiped out whole civilizations, to the point they became a foot note in a history book never to rise again. That's a little extreme but we used to believe in carrying a big stick and speaking softy. Hey GE please don't make those advanced turbines in India (the tech that you took from Germany and the USA), as we have war ships ready to launch cruise missiles into their factories type of thing. That's a "uh ... what" with a little piece of poo in your pants type response these days, where as back in the day that kept everyone in check.
Phyopahts and sociopaths (which are most corporate CEO's and board members) are only kept in check by threat of force and periodic application of said force to make an example. The lack of application of said force has resulted in corporations running amok. Corporations are stateless entities with almost no accountability (because the host nations don't hold them accountable) because no one is willing to push the button on the war ship ... for some reason.
Ants never take down an elephant, that's a desperate response from an entity without leverage, if the US wanted to we could bring down the hammer hard and not have any consequences to ourselves. However if we keep feeding and watering the phyopaths and our forign enemies who are culturally divergent then we will, one day, be in a position of negative leverage. We are selling out our kids basically.
Our kids will be in a position of pandering and negotiating rather than dictating and demanding, that's a bad place to be. There should only be a few other major nations we talk on the same level with, the rest we strip mine for talent and minerals and that's that.
For instance if a company, in their indignant smug attitude, go to another country and set up shop using US intellectual property and refuse to cease and desist we simply blow the plant up.
And can you imagine why this hasn't ever been tried?
Hint: It's not because the U.S. -- with a history of violent intervention in Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Turkey, Greece, Italy, Nicaragua, Honduras, Dominican Republic, Chile, Vietnam, China, Japan, Korea, etc. -- is shy about flexing its muscles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsflyer
If the US and its people continue to tolerate theft of intellectual property we will surely fall apart.
Not if the U.S. keeps to form and keeps on innovating so that by the time the I.P. is stolen whole new generations of technology shall have vaulted the nation even further ahead up the value-added chain....
Also, consider that the Industrial Revolution actually started in what's now Germany, not Britain...much to the complaints of the various German states at the time, the British took German know-how and capitalized on it, later complaining about the Americans, who complained about the Japanese and now the Chinese (the former of which has also complained about the latter)..."all fair in love and war," really....
Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsflyer
Also its possible to maintain the power house of exchange of ideas within the boarders of the USA, allowing SELECT people in (not who ever a corporation wants to bring in for cheap pseudo slave labor in quazi skilled jobs).
That'll never work -- consider that this very internet we're on right now was originally supposed to be for only select people, scientists (and political and military leaders in the event of nuclear war)...and as you've no doubt heard by now, "information wants to be free"....
Better to focus on improving your game than to cry foul -- it'll cost you the same amount of time and energy to do either but only the former path guarantees victory....
Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsflyer
"Globalism" as it exists today is another word for exploitation, however, if it is very tightly managed we can get the benefits of attracting the truly bright and inspired and weed out the greedy fat hogs looking to exploit.
Tightly managed by whom??
You think the "greedy fat hogs" are going to let themselves be weeded out??
As Jay Gould is reputed to have said, "I can always hire one half of the working class to shoot the other half."
Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsflyer
Cronicals of ridich is a movie where the military had such overwhelming power that if there was non compliance they literally wiped out whole civilizations, to the point they became a foot note in a history book never to rise again.
Good grief. You might as well cite the Bible where God just flooded the earth!
Did you know that even by the most liberal interpretations of the data, genetic researchers have found that all seven billion people on the planet today are no more than seventy times removed from one another on the human family tree?? (For that matter, we humans share 50% of our DNA with bananas! So if you ever suspect yourself to be crazy....)
So there won't ever be a society with a military that has "such overwhelming power" because no one group of people can ever be that much smarter than all the other groups combined for very long -- and balance of power is such that everyone else will always ally with each other to contain the would-be hegemon....
Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsflyer
That's a little extreme but we used to believe in carrying a big stick and speaking softy.
And now there's Trump!
Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsflyer
Hey GE please don't make those advanced turbines in India (the tech that you took from Germany and the USA), as we have war ships ready to launch cruise missiles into their factories type of thing. That's a "uh ... what" with a little piece of poo in your pants type response these days, where as back in the day that kept everyone in check.
Uhhhh...there was no such thing "back in the day"...wars were fought, as always, over access to resources -- not because one guy copied another guy's homework (intellectual property)!
Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsflyer
Phyopahts and sociopaths (which are most corporate CEO's and board members) are only kept in check by threat of force and periodic application of said force to make an example.
Hello???
They're the ones who own that force!
So you mind your manners, worker-bee...and that's Mr. Sociopath to you!
Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsflyer
The lack of application of said force has resulted in corporations running amok. Corporations are stateless entities with almost no accountability (because the host nations don't hold them accountable) because no one is willing to push the button on the war ship ... for some reason.
I see what the problem is now...you are in the grips of an alternate history of a parallel universe...that's why what you say is so nonsensical.
I'm sorry...we agree on U.B.I. but all this other stuff you're talking has nothing to do with reality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsflyer
Ants never take down an elephant,
Indeed they do. Moreover, do you know that micro-organisms exist which can literally take over an ant, a wasp, even a rat, making them seek out their own deaths at the hands of their predators?? It's true!
In fact, given our still nascent knowledge of our own microbiomes, it's arguable that we're but walking condominiums for our own collection of micro-ogranisms -- ~90% of the human body isn't actually composed of human cells!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsflyer
that's a desperate response from an entity without leverage, if the US wanted to we could bring down the hammer hard and not have any consequences to ourselves.
Okay, I'm sorry but while we agree on U.B.I. I can see that you are wildly removed from reality as it was and as it is.
Though I would be interested in a discussion as to the ramifications of a global economy on U.B.I. in any one particular country such as the U.S., I'll have to simply agree to disagree with you on your unfortunately fanciful understanding of other matters.
Last edited by HomelessLoser; 12-07-2017 at 10:15 AM..
Reason: Addenda.
Unfortunately, everyone is already dependent on the government, no matter how rich or entitled they are. There are boundaries that the government won't let anyone cross. No one is allowed to step out of line without serious consequences.
I'm waiting for someone to chime in and say they don't need the government at all... they burn firewood and live up in some log cabin without electricity, and deliver their own mail
I'm waiting for someone to chime in and say they don't need the government at all... they burn firewood and live up in some log cabin without electricity, and deliver their own mail
You may not need the government, but the government needs you.
And can you imagine why this hasn't ever been tried?
Hint: It's not because the U.S. -- with a history of violent intervention in Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Turkey, Greece, Italy, Nicaragua, Honduras, Dominican Republic, Chile, Vietnam, China, Japan, Korea, etc. -- is shy about flexing its muscles.
Not if the U.S. keeps to form and keeps on innovating so that by the time the I.P. is stolen whole new generations of technology shall have vaulted the nation even further ahead up the value-added chain....
Also, consider that the Industrial Revolution actually started in what's now Germany, not Britain...much to the complaints of the various German states at the time, the British took German know-how and capitalized on it, later complaining about the Americans, who complained about the Japanese and now the Chinese (the former of which has also complained about the latter)..."all fair in love and war," really....
That'll never work -- consider that this very internet we're on right now was originally supposed to be for only select people, scientists (and political and military leaders in the event of nuclear war)...and as you've no doubt heard by now, "information wants to be free"....
Better to focus on improving your game than to cry foul -- it'll cost you the same amount of time and energy to do either but only the former path guarantees victory....
Tightly managed by whom??
You think the "greedy fat hogs" are going to let themselves be weeded out??
As Jay Gould is reputed to have said, "I can always hire one half of the working class to shoot the other half."
Good grief. You might as well cite the Bible where God just flooded the earth!
Did you know that even by the most liberal interpretations of the data, genetic researchers have found that all seven billion people on the planet today are no more than seventy times removed from one another on the human family tree?? (For that matter, we humans share 50% of our DNA with bananas! So if you ever suspect yourself to be crazy....)
So there won't ever be a society with a military that has "such overwhelming power" because no one group of people can ever be that much smarter than all the other groups combined for very long -- and balance of power is such that everyone else will always ally with each other to contain the would-be hegemon....
And now there's Trump!
Uhhhh...there was no such thing "back in the day"...wars were fought, as always, over access to resources -- not because one guy copied another guy's homework (intellectual property)!
Hello???
They're the ones who own that force!
So you mind your manners, worker-bee...and that's Mr. Sociopath to you!
I see what the problem is now...you are in the grips of an alternate history of a parallel universe...that's why what you say is so nonsensical.
I'm sorry...we agree on U.B.I. but all this other stuff you're talking has nothing to do with reality.
Indeed they do. Moreover, do you know that micro-organisms exist which can literally take over an ant, a wasp, even a rat, making them seek out their own deaths at the hands of their predators?? It's true!
In fact, given our still nascent knowledge of our own microbiomes, it's arguable that we're but walking condominiums for our own collection of micro-ogranisms -- ~90% of the human body isn't actually composed of human cells!!
Okay, I'm sorry but while we agree on U.B.I. I can see that you are wildly removed from reality as it was and as it is.
Though I would be interested in a discussion as to the ramifications of a global economy on U.B.I. in any one particular country such as the U.S., I'll have to simply agree to disagree with you on your unfortunately fanciful understanding of other matters.
What takes one person 20 years to develop someone else can reverse engineer in 3-4 months, how well do you think we can just "keep innovating" with that kind of a differential in timing without protecting our trade secrets and intellectual property as a nation?
The idea has been advocated by many for years. Not just by liberals, but also by moderates (like Richard Nixon) and conservatives (like Milton Friedman).
The arguments we are having over $15 minimum wage got me to thinking...
We are headed for a catastrophe when automatic cars are perfected to the point where there's no more cabbies, Uber, or truck drivers. Deliveries of pizza, flowers, etc will be made by drones and robots in self-driving cars. We're going to need a universal basic income before the end of my lifetime. There won't be enough jobs for people.
Thoughts?
We could all be picking up trash, trying to clean the lakes, oceans and space too....There's work if you LOOK for some.
We could all be picking up trash, trying to clean the lakes, oceans and space too....There's work if you LOOK for some.
The problem is not looking for work. The problem is does the work pay the bills? Or does it barely cover rent? You mean to tell me you can pay $1200 rent picking up trash and have money left over to buy food? Where?
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