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And once you are dependent on that income and the gov't goes OOOPS no more money, we're cancelling UBI ... what will you do then? YOU WILL DO WHATEVER THEY TELL YOU TO DO.
Um, you do realize that we live in a democracy, right?
Rule of law and all that, correct?
"The government" can't just "take away" UBI because we shall have voted it in as law through our representatives....
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Originally Posted by newtovenice
UBI = true freedom??? You don't understand what true freedom is. TRUE FREEDOM is NOT a handout, holy trapezoid on a circle cracker, good GAWD almighty. Gov't handout = freedom????
But UBI isn't a "handout" -- it's your taxes working for you for a change!
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Originally Posted by newtovenice
I can only shake my head, in utter despair that people think this way.
Head-shaking is not healthy for the brain and you've totally misconstrued everything said.
Taxes, of course -- individual income taxes and corporate income taxes and maybe even a penny-tax on every stock market transaction....
But here's the thing: we're not talking about more taxes on individuals -- only increased taxation for corporations, yes (though the ramifications must be very carefully thought-out in our globalized economy).
With UBI, your taxes will be working directly for you for a change! And so will corporate taxes, which will also be much more fair, finally!
Again, there's a lot of ripple-effects that must be thoroughly investigated (population control, "freeloaders," tax havens, etc.), to be sure, but UBI is possible.
Um, you do realize that we live in a democracy, right?
Rule of law and all that, correct?
"The government" can't just "take away" UBI because we shall have voted it in as law through our representatives....
Well... you do have to take into consideration that how many millions of people with ACA insurance who are living on the edge of poverty (or below and on welfare) voted for representatives who want to take all of that away? Americans, particularly poor white Americans, are notorious for voting against their own best interests. So I have no doubt that if UBI were to come into place, some of the people who need it the most would be campaigning against it. Then they'll jump up and down when the dolt they vote in takes it away... until they don't get their check. Then, whoops, now what? Must be UBI's fault.
Your freedoms are DESPITE gov't. The gov't doesn't exist to grant you freedom. Unless you believe the entire human race is inherently born as slaves into a pre-existing system of slavery and is just waiting for "gov't" to come rescue them. Gov't is what CREATES SLAVES.
Dude, you know those countries without a functioning government?
Where, you know, the people live in constant fear of war, famine, disease, and the like?
Of course, "government" can be taken to extremes like anything involving people but...really, I'm not interested in playing semantic games with you; you know better. Now do you want to actually discuss UBI?
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Originally Posted by newtovenice
And why would the gov't take money from me just to give it back? That makes no sense.
So now you want to pretend you don't understand taxes, either?? Seriously???
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Originally Posted by newtovenice
Unless it is to encourage people not to work. Why would I work and then have them take money from me just to give it back? I'd rather NOT work and then just get it, which will be the sheeple mentality which will lead to very few working and no one to pay for it.
But here's the thing: we're not talking about more taxes on individuals -- only increased taxation for corporations, yes (though the ramifications must be very carefully thought-out in our globalized economy).
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Originally Posted by HomelessLoser
Ultimately, of course, UBI is just a transitional vehicle towards a wholly money-less society such as envisioned in Star Trek where total automation means machines do everything,* producing everything, freeing up everyone to, uh, "boldly go where no one has gone before"....
What corporate tax? There is no more money in your future, no more profits to tax...
Are you on welfare and subsisting at the poverty level now? No? Then why would you be with UBI? Why do you work now so the government can take your money and fund public services, the military, trips to the Maralago, Medicaid, and social services when you have the option to stay home and collect welfare? It’s because you don’t want to live in some crappy section 8 apartment and subsist on food stamps. The UBI program would eliminate those social programs and instead spread the “wealth” around.
As far as the government enslaving you, I assume you are okay with driving a regulated car with mandated safety features on government-maintained roads, taking books out of the government-paid-for library, eating foods that are safe thanks to government regulations, seeing medical professionals who the darn government insists complete a certain amount of higher education, being entitled to protection in public and at work, etc, etc, etc. You might not think you’re not dependent on the government keeping you safe, but you’d be wrong.
Thank you...I just don't have the energy anymore for reciting the basics to people...really makes me wonder if we're being trolled here....
Well... you do have to take into consideration that how many millions of people with ACA insurance who are living on the edge of poverty (or below and on welfare) voted for representatives who want to take all of that away?
LOL -- indeed!
But if we do have UBI, it will mean that voters shall have become exponentially better informed by then...
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Originally Posted by AnotherTouchOfWhimsy
Americans, particularly poor white Americans, are notorious for voting against their own best interests.
I wouldn't single out white folks; blacks were forever reinstalling the likes of James Sharpe and Marion Barry into office term after term after term...frankly, blacks and whites are so much more similar than not in so very many ways.
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Originally Posted by AnotherTouchOfWhimsy
So I have no doubt that if UBI were to come into place, some of the people who need it the most would be campaigning against it.
Well, "some," sure...a negligible "some" since if UBI ever became reality in the U.S. (I'm starting to think China, of all places, will see UBI first!!), the overwhelming vast majority of voters must have had a mass simultaneous epiphany!
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Originally Posted by AnotherTouchOfWhimsy
Then they'll jump up and down when the dolt they vote in takes it away... until they don't get their check. Then, whoops, now what? Must be UBI's fault.
I think UBI's inevitable, actually -- just a matter of when...and where.
If not here in the U.S. -- well, the U.S. is really a parvenu to human evolution and civilization anyway...smart people can live anywhere and always have.
I have to say, Homeless, that you come across as quite intelligent, well-spoken, educated, and have dominated this thread more than any other I've seen.
Which prompts me to ask, how did someone with your intellectual resources come to be "Homeless Loser"? Are you really homeless? Hard to imagine. Are you writing all this from the library?
You don't sound like a "Loser" at all.
FYI, we've left the U.S. as we can't afford to live there in retirement.
Maybe you need to broaden your horizons---there are no homeless here that I can see. Jobs have security, health care and retirement plans.
I'm afraid the U.S. is on a downward spiral and it is very frightening.
I have to say, Homeless, that you come across as quite intelligent, well-spoken, educated, and have dominated this thread more than any other I've seen.
Which prompts me to ask, how did someone with your intellectual resources come to be "Homeless Loser"? Are you really homeless? Hard to imagine. Are you writing all this from the library?
You don't sound like a "Loser" at all.
FYI, we've left the U.S. as we can't afford to live there in retirement.
Maybe you need to broaden your horizons---there are no homeless here that I can see. Jobs have security, health care and retirement plans.
I'm afraid the U.S. is on a downward spiral and it is very frightening.
Sand&Salt: Do you mind letting us know the general area on the equator that you live in? I am also a retiree but can afford to live in the US (for now). In case things change it would be nice to know into which countries I can "escape" to.
I have to say, Homeless, that you come across as quite intelligent, well-spoken, educated, and have dominated this thread more than any other I've seen.
Which prompts me to ask, how did someone with your intellectual resources come to be "Homeless Loser"? Are you really homeless? Hard to imagine. Are you writing all this from the library? You don't sound like a "Loser" at all.
Oh wow, thanks for that...TBH, I'm not sure how to go into my "origin story" (a comic book reference, heh) since, at least initially, answers will only engender more questions and I'm especially wary of "making UBI look bad" since it's not like I'm a former child-soldier from Africa or something terribly tragic like that -- but yes I do use public WiFi where I can as well as avail myself of my phone's data plan (I am employed but yes homeless though thankfully NYC has an extensive shelter system, such as it is).
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Originally Posted by Sand&Salt
FYI, we've left the U.S. as we can't afford to live there in retirement.
Maybe you need to broaden your horizons---there are no homeless here that I can see. Jobs have security, health care and retirement plans.
Um...so do you mind sharing where's a good place to go (I dunno; "China or Bust"??)...BTW, I'm glad you've found your niche in the world! How did you come by it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sand&Salt
I'm afraid the U.S. is on a downward spiral and it is very frightening.
I won't ever see UBI I'm sure (I'd bet on it) but I do take some comfort in knowing that the species will progress to it one day -- even if not in the U.S.
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