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Yeah most of those things are just bogus...who cares if your hands are on your lap or on the table or whatever?
As long as you're not being uncouth (picking your nose, eating too noisily, hawking, spitting, bumping into people) or being too messy, I say be free to eat how you feel most comfortable.
It may seem bogus to you but when you are eating with a group who you do business with, most want to be seated with people who have respect for themselves and others and take the time to use proper table manners. I really don't care if they use American or European, but have some class and be respectful of yourself and others.
It may seem bogus to you but when you are eating with a group who you do business with, most want to be seated with people who have respect for themselves and others and take the time to use proper table manners. I really don't care if they use American or European, but have some class and be respectful of yourself and others.
I don't see why having your elbows on the table even affects anyone, really. It's not like you're loudly burping, picking your nose, and being rude to people or anything.
I am pretty big on table manners, but it seems more and more common (and to me, inoffensive) to put your elbows on the table after desert when coffee and conversation begin in earnest. During the meal itself, not so much.
Also, I have rarely noticed the American cut-and-switch, and am amused to find out that it is really the traditional European method.
I do see ham-fisted people gripping their fork like a dagger being plunged into the heart of a beast, though. It makes adults look like three-year olds. Real cringe worthy behavior, but then some people lack normal manual dexterity or have carpel tunnel syndrome or something so I try not to be too critical as long as they aren't talking with their mouths full.
My family was very formal with lots of rules & regulations & dining was no exception. There was a proper way to dress when coming to the table, as well. Even afternoon tea was a formal affair. The slightest infraction got us wee ones severely chastised & humiliated, sometimes sent from the table. Meals were no fun... they were more akin to our Catholic schooling or formal school system, back in the days when teachers or nuns could strike children. Still, I've noticed that most of my siblings have pretty much stuck to the rules, because they were ingrained in us, but we do let events dictate the level of said rules... like at a BBQ when they're rather informal. When visiting, I've sat on the garden glider with my brother & had a blast eating subs with paper napkins (My father just rolled over in his grave! ) dripping mustard on our sleeves & drinking beer from a bottle (My mum just ).
At the baseball game this Thurs afternoon, I was more than happy to eat fries with my fingers, toss peanut shells under my feet & drink beer from a plastic cup... & loved it. I'm more comfortable with formalities, but I recognize I'm in the minority amongst many & feel others' habits are really none of my business. I notice what other people do when eating, but don't judge. I've lived all over the world & have noticed poor etiquette vs very proper etiquette on every continent. Americans get a bad rap for lax behavior, but being well traveled, I've seen that it's certainly not an American anomaly.
I will say, however, I have had 1 friend whose penchant for eating a hamburger by twisting it 'round & 'round, licking it over & over whilst nibbling at it in a slightly pornographic way (yep, full on food porn! ), combined with speaking with her mouth full, not only got us nasty looks from diners at nearby tables & our wait staff, but made me lose my appetite. After a few lunches, I just decided not to meet her for meals, but only for coffee/drinks. She's not a horrible person & perhaps in her country or family, such things were commonplace. No judgment on her character, just a bit unpleasant & unappetizing for me, personally.
I guess for me, I swap back & forth as company dictates, but am most comfortable eating formally, even if alone. And, although I dislike admitting it, I have dropped what I normally formally do in order to not make others feel uncomfortable, when I've had people to my home where manners & eating habits were somewhat loose. I suppose I basically follow something my mum taught us... don't correct others & as with the Queen Victoria story, if one uses a finger bowl as a drinking bowl, don't chastise, follow suit.
I do feel, however, it's not a bad idea to be aware of formal dining etiquette, should it ever be necessary, as others have mentioned, for a lunch interview, dinner with clients or work social functions. Possibly not good for one's resume to be known as the slurping, shirt-stained, mouth-stuffer.
As a note, someone mentioned elbows on the table being rude & wondering why. As she mentioned in the clip & as we were taught, elbows on the table was acceptable after the meal was completed, dishes cleared & dessert was being served. We were taught that it's polite to wait patiently for others to finish... the perceived rude part comes into play when someone places elbows on the table, signifying that others are slow eaters & should be finished, as they're making everyone else wait for dessert. In fact, I've had several friends from varying cultures in which it's considered rude for the host to finish eating before the guests. The reason is the host doesn't want to give the impression of rushing guests. I think for us, it was far more practical... with 7 children, we were taught not to put elbows on the table so as not to stain clothing, as we kids were wont to do.
But, we do all differ & we were taught deviations from what the video suggested. Placing utensils at 12:00 signified being done with the plate (never heard of the 10:20 angle). In either case, the placement reason is 2-fold... the wait staff can tell if one is finished sans walking over to ask (so the diner is being polite to the staff) & the conversation flow of the diners won't be disturbed (so the staff is, in turn, being polite to the diners).
All that being said, if I invite people for dinner, I'm only concerned if they like the food & feel attended to... I don't want them to have to do anything... glasses will be refilled, condiments will be fetched, seconds will be brought if left warming in the oven & if they put their elbows on the table or use a toothpick like they're digging for gold, well, so be it, at least they're comfortable in my home. Another issue entirely, but I don't ask guests to clean up or help with dishes, etc. I personally find that rude... see, we all differ. Some view it as 'pay back' for a nice meal. This could be a whole other post, but I feel the reason to go to another's house for dinner is to enjoy a night off from cooking/cleaning. If I'm asked to make a salad once I arrive, pick things up (I was once asked to stop at 3 different stores before arriving for dinner... liquor store, bakery & to p/u diapers for their baby) and/or clean up, wash & dry dishes afterwards (why is it that men are never asked?!!), then next time I'd rather stay home & cook what I want. Customs differ but just as in some Asian cultures (I lived in Japan as a teen), food is cut bite sized as it's considered impolite to make one's guest cut their own, I feel the same. Sit, eat, enjoy... I'll do the work. You can do dishes & cut veggies in your own home.
It's also improper in Korea to begin eating until the eldest person at the table has begun.
Interesting... I like that sign of respect. In most countries I've lived (there have been over 1/2-dozen) it was common that dinner didn't formally begin 'til all are seated & the hostess has placed her napkin in her lap. In most of those cases, the hostess began with a toast. I like varying traditions... it makes mealtime more interesting.
One thing I've also learned (whether it's acceptable or not) is I'm not afraid to ask if I have no idea what to do. In Italy I was at a family's home for dinner & they set an unusual table setting by placing plates/bowls on top of others, some upside down, others right side up, like a house of cards. They brought a soup tureen to the table & I had no idea if I was supposed to take the soup bowl off the top, or just turn it over, so I just laughed & asked. Interestingly, they said to do what I felt comfortable with, waited to see what I did & followed suit. Still, I've no idea if what I did was 'correct' in their family or if they were just kind & didn't want to point out that I had no idea how to eat from a stack of dishes... haha.
I don't even notice if people do or not. And why, there's no logical reason...does the table have feelings, does it not like you putting your elbows on it? Do other people get so offended by the sight of your elbows they lose their appetite?
In France, or at least where I live and lived, you don't put your elbows on the table while you are eating or drinking. But you are allowed to if you are speaking or taking a break between two chews. And you can remove your hands from the table only when the meal is officially over. Of course in family or with good friends manners are more loose.
Koreans traditionally eat food from low tables with their legs folded, so it's basically force of habit for them.
Grigoriachel,
Where did you find that photo? Better yet....where can I buy that table? Those seat cushions look awesome.
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) dripping mustard on our sleeves & drinking beer from a bottle (My mum just 
). 
), combined with speaking with her mouth full, not only got us nasty looks from diners at nearby tables & our wait staff, but made me lose my appetite. After a few lunches, I just decided not to meet her for meals, but only for coffee/drinks. She's not a horrible person & perhaps in her country or family, such things were commonplace. No judgment on her character, just a bit unpleasant & unappetizing for me, personally.
