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Old 12-09-2017, 08:53 AM
 
Location: Finland
24,128 posts, read 24,821,814 times
Reputation: 11103

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
I believe that eventually there will be some form of universal healthcare, maybe in combination with private incentives.
You can't have it anymore. Not without some kind of revolution.
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Old 12-09-2017, 09:05 AM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
27,578 posts, read 28,687,607 times
Reputation: 25172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
You can't have it anymore. Not without some kind of revolution.
It only seems that way. But American politics always swings like a pendulum.

Right now, Trump is cleaning house by stopping illegal immigration. Once that is done, the mood of the country will become more favorable towards universal healthcare - for people who actually belong in this country.
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Old 12-09-2017, 09:17 AM
 
10,839 posts, read 14,732,757 times
Reputation: 7874
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bordeaux33 View Post
It is useless to compare wages between Europe and the US, net wages in France for example already have pensions, health insurance and education deducted and it is the same for most European countries. Not counting the other state aids (help for housing, family allowances etc.).

But hey I do not deny that salaries for the upper classes (engineer, doctors etc) are significantly higher in the US.
Right. Many people are obsessed with places with higher GDP per capita or higher official disposable income, as if that accurately reflect standard of living. It doesn't.

For example, per capita GDP in Alabama is higher than that in Germany. That in Kansas is higher than Sweden and at par with Denmark. It would be ridiculous to think life is better than in those US states.

After tax income is even a worse measurement. That only measures how much stuff you HAVE to buy in the market. For example going to a medical school in the US costs like half a million dollars while it is almost free in France.
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Old 12-09-2017, 09:21 AM
 
Location: Finland
24,128 posts, read 24,821,814 times
Reputation: 11103
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
It only seems that way. But American politics always swings like a pendulum.

Right now, Trump is cleaning house by stopping illegal immigration. Once that is done, the mood of the country will become more favorable towards universal healthcare - for people who actually belong in this country.
Big pharma and insurance companies won't allow it.
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Old 12-09-2017, 09:27 AM
 
10,839 posts, read 14,732,757 times
Reputation: 7874
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
It only seems that way. But American politics always swings like a pendulum.

Right now, Trump is cleaning house by stopping illegal immigration. Once that is done, the mood of the country will become more favorable towards universal healthcare - for people who actually belong in this country.
Not having universal healthcare hardly has anything to do with illegal immigrants. It is due to the false understanding of "freedom". It has always been the legal Americans who prevent it from happening.

But it is OK. I hope America will stay this way. Along with the gun control problem. An America with troubles inside is better for the world overall.
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Old 12-09-2017, 09:40 AM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
27,578 posts, read 28,687,607 times
Reputation: 25172
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
Not having universal healthcare hardly has anything to do with illegal immigrants. It is due to the false understanding of "freedom". It has always been the legal Americans who prevent it from happening.

But it is OK. I hope America will stay this way. Along with the gun control problem. An America with troubles inside is better for the world overall.
Illegal immigration has become a seriously divisive issue in America. Nobody wants their country to have an underclass of millions of illegal immigrants.

That's something that even a lot of European countries can relate to, to a certain extent.
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Old 12-09-2017, 11:38 AM
 
3,950 posts, read 3,305,536 times
Reputation: 1693
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
Not having universal healthcare hardly has anything to do with illegal immigrants.
It does in the context of offering a political excuse to introduce later on universal healthcare...."we stopped illegal immigration and the cost associated with it (real or imaginary) so now we can afford public healthcare".
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Old 12-09-2017, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Finland
24,128 posts, read 24,821,814 times
Reputation: 11103
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
Illegal immigration has become a seriously divisive issue in America. Nobody wants their country to have an underclass of millions of illegal immigrants.

That's something that even a lot of European countries can relate to, to a certain extent.
You already have an underclass of legal citizens. It's the White people in the trailer parks, the Native Americans in their reservations, the Blacks in the inner cities in the rust belt.

No, this kind of underclass doesn't exist in Europe.
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Old 12-09-2017, 11:45 AM
 
3,950 posts, read 3,305,536 times
Reputation: 1693
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
Right. Many people are obsessed with places with higher GDP per capita or higher official disposable income, as if that accurately reflect standard of living. It doesn't.

For example, per capita GDP in Alabama is higher than that in Germany. That in Kansas is higher than Sweden and at par with Denmark. It would be ridiculous to think life is better than in those US states.

After tax income is even a worse measurement. That only measures how much stuff you HAVE to buy in the market. For example going to a medical school in the US costs like half a million dollars while it is almost free in France.

I agree...a more accurate picture of the ranking of GDP by PPP


A very good example is Russia.....on simple GDP terms, it is the 12th economy in the world where the US is #1 and everybody ridicule Russia economy compared to the US in the current Russophobic environment in the media...but look at the PPP and the situation changes dramatically (IMF data source).....US slides to #2 behind China, and Russia is #6, actually ahead of many industrialized nations (ahead of UK or France and way ahead of Canada).


If you produce a fighter jet or a nuclear reactor at a fraction of the cost of an American fighter jet or nuclear reactor you still have a fighter jet or a nuclear reactor in your hands....
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Old 12-09-2017, 11:47 AM
 
828 posts, read 693,335 times
Reputation: 1345
Quote:
Originally Posted by survivingearth View Post
These seems to be the favorite countries to live whenever i talk to people. Do you agree?
Remove France from that list. It just doesn't belong in class with the other 4. The US, Germany, UK, and Australia are probably the best countries to live in overall, and probably have been for quite a while.

However, those countries seem to be getting slowly worse, or at least seem to be stagnating, while other countries are starting to improve, so it may not be the case for much longer.
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