Battle of the passport-free zones: Schengen vs. The United States (airports, agricultural)

[Mhc1985]

These threads meant to compare the US with a block of European countries as if they were equivalent entities make me cringe.

Anyway, on the “diversity” issue, you can’t really compare diasporas with regional cultures either. Having Chinese, Thai, Indian, Nigerian, Mexican or whatever people within a big city, from a given country, with their national language and identity, has nothing to do with going through national borders or regions with high dialectal and cultural singularity, which besides may also have their own Diasporas from different parts of the world.

[Brave New World]

Originally Posted by OyCrumbler

Sure, sure. I guess Iceland is in the Schengen Area because so many people were just strolling in.

Also, mind you, I’m not saying I’m for or against whatever Northern Ireland does or does not do. However, it does seem like the odds of Northern Ireland leaving the UK and joining Ireland have increased in recent years.

Iceland isn't even in the EU and in terms of Scheghen, it doesn't matter if Iceland is in it or not, youb are still going to have to have documentation and security checks on any flight in and out of Iceland.

[wikiwikirunner]

Originally Posted by MrJester

This is true for the most part. However, I find that international borders are not everything. I find that Seattle and Vancouver have much more in common with each other than either have with Toronto or Atlanta, respectively.

No one is saying that there aren't differences between places in the USA, however, you're confusing the fact that there are differences, with places that are fundamentally different and have gone down separate cultural, linguistic, religious and economic paths for hundreds, if not thousands of years.

Sure, Seattle and Vancouver aren't entirely different. But you're comparing two very geographically close cities in two countries that are incredibly similar. Just because certain countries share similarities does not mean that all international borders do not signify major differences. On the same lines, one could draw a lot of parallels between Vienna and many German cities, and not just in that they all speak German. Austria and Germany share many architectural, culinary, cultural and ethnic qualities as well. But that doesn't mean everywhere in Europe is similar to Vienna or Munich. What about Vienna and Bratislava? They're only about an hour apart by car and very different places. Or drive 2 hours north from Vienna, and you're in Brno, Czechia. Or An hour southeast and you're in Gyor, Hungary. Within 2 hours of Vienna you have 3 other countries that speak 3 other languages and have centuries of fundamental differences. Where, within the borders of the USA do you have any place(s) like this?

It looks like OP has only been to Vienna, Salsburg, Munich and Paris, I think it's safe to say that he doesn't have very much exposure to the entirety of the Schengen Area. It's totally fine if someone prefers traveling in the USA over Europe. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and discovering new places that you connect with is what travel is all about, but to claim that the USA has more diversity and range than the Schengen area is simply uninformed and factually incorrect. Plan a trip through Reykjavik-The Azores-Gran Canaria-Rome-Zurich-Tallinn-Brasov-Varna and then tell me how much more diverse the USA is.

[wikiwikirunner]

Originally Posted by Brave New World

Iceland isn't even in the EU and in terms of Scheghen, it doesn't matter if Iceland is in it or not, youb are still going to have to have documentation and security checks on any flight in and out of Iceland.

There will be passport control on flights in and out of the Schengen area from places like the UK, Canada and the USA to Iceland, yes. There is no immigration between Iceland and the rest of the Schengen Zone.

[Brave New World]

Originally Posted by wikiwikirunner

Flights in and out of the Schengen area from places like the UK, Canada and the USA to Iceland, yes. There is no immigration between Iceland and the rest of the Schengen Zone.

Iceland has a strange relationship with the EU jowever it's easy to be in Scheghen if people have to have their identities checked on flights and there luggage checked before going on to an aircraft.

The only credible way to get to Iceland is by plane, as a jouney by sea would take forever.

[Threestep2]

Originally Posted by MrJester

This is true for the most part. However, I find that international borders are not everything. I find that Seattle and Vancouver have much more in common with each other than either have with Toronto or Atlanta, respectively.

And all of this after a trip to Atlanta

[OyCrumbler]

Originally Posted by Brave New World

Iceland isn't even in the EU and in terms of Scheghen, it doesn't matter if Iceland is in it or not, youb are still going to have to have documentation and security checks on any flight in and out of Iceland.

EU and Schengen Area are obviously different. I don't really understand the argument for why having flights in and out as the only way to come get in and out precludes a country from joining the Schengen Area. It obviously does not, and the obvious reason for why Ireland remains in the Common Travel Area with the UK has much to do with maintaining an open land border with Northern Ireland. I don't think there's much to argue about here as it's a matter of public record officially stated by the government of the Republic of Ireland.

[Natnasci]

Originally Posted by MrJester

This is true for the most part. However, I find that international borders are not everything. I find that Seattle and Vancouver have much more in common with each other than either have with Toronto or Atlanta, respectively.

Superficially this might seem true, especially to a visitor who usually doesn't stay long enough to scratch the surface of a place.

In reality, I would be much more at home in Toronto, than Seattle, just because of the way things work so differently in each country.

However this isn't about Canada, but about a visitor to the US and the Schengen Area countries, so I stand by my point.

[Javawood]

Schengen because there's more you can see without driving.

[Brave New World]

Originally Posted by OyCrumbler

EU and Schengen Area are obviously different. I don't really understand the argument for why having flights in and out as the only way to come get in and out precludes a country from joining the Schengen Area. It obviously does not, and the obvious reason for why Ireland remains in the Common Travel Area with the UK has much to do with maintaining an open land border with Northern Ireland. I don't think there's much to argue about here as it's a matter of public record officially stated by the government of the Republic of Ireland.

Airports are so security orientated these days that you are subject to check in, identity requests, and luggage checks in relation to all flights, so it's not some seamless border free operation even in such travel zones. Planes are also for all passengers from across the world and some will need more checks than others, and there is no massive difference between those countries in the Scheghen area and those not in the Schenghen area in terms of airports and planes operating in Europe.

The same is true of other modes of transport that could be the target of terrorist attacks, and it's only really cars, trains and foot traffic that is exempt from most border free travel, whilst EU countries have relatively frictionless borders with countries outside of the EU and Scheghen, and it's not a big issue, in fact most people prefer the security of the occasional check and extra vigilance in terms of terrorism and serious cross border crime.

As for Schenghen, a lot of countries in Schenghen have actually reinstated border controls in recent years and Schenghen has come under a lot of criticism, partly due to migrants crossng borders and also due to the fact terrorists and criminals have easily crossed borders, including those who committed terrorist attrocities in Paris.

As for NI, despite the Common Travel Area, it had massive security checks including Army and Police border check points and border patrols for decades, and Schenghen wouldn't have made any difference.