Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
There was a time when "NFL football" was the only concise expression what would distinguish it from AFL football, a competing league which has since merged with the NFL It is still necessary to distinguish, on TV listings, for example, NFL Football from College Football.
If I caught a foul ball at a game, and handed it to you, would you expect me to say "This is an officail MLB baseball", or could I just say "This is an official MLB". MLB is an acronym for a specific corporate entity, and "MLB baseball" is the game that is sanctioned by that organization. And the ball they use. Just as a can of ESSO oil can be put in your crankcase, and you'd better be sure that you speficy "Esso oil" before the attendant puts Esso gasoline in your engine, even though your son cringes because the "O" stands for "oil"..
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010
I would think that any discussion of a peronal identification number would have sufficient context to know that was a PIN and not some other pin, such as a safety pin.
The baseball and football terms are irrelevant because the second use of the word football or baseball does not refer to the same word as used in the acronym. For Esso oil, you would indeed need to specify oil because Esso also sells gasoline. Also, Esso is now a name in itself and is not truly an acronym.
But saying ATM machine or PIN number is redundant. If you expand the acronym into its full words, you see the reason. What you get is nonsense: automated teller machine machine or personal identification number number. The second use of the word does not add any useful information.
I'm totally clueless about Esso, so will have to believe both of you.
As for MLB baseball being written as such on a tv listing, this is just dumb. I know what MLB stands for and I am going to watch a Major League Baseball game, not a Major League Baseball baseball. An MLB baseball is a round object used in the game.
It's no different than ATM machine or PIN number. The redundant word is just not needed.
If we have to become an acronymed world, then we should at least use them right.
There was a time when "NFL football" was the only concise expression what would distinguish it from AFL football, a competing league which has since merged with the NFL It is still necessary to distinguish, on TV listings, for example, NFL Football from College Football.
Yes, but once in a while, oldtimers still say "The New York football Giants" to distinguish them from the baseball team that moved west in 1958. I suppose it's an anachronism, but it still makes this old-timer think of Frank Gifford, Y.A. Tittler, and Dick Modzelewski. Not to mention such worthy opponents as Pete Pihos, Ollie Matson, and Night Train Lane.
I'm totally clueless about Esso, so will have to believe both of you.
As for MLB baseball being written as such on a tv listing, this is just dumb. I know what MLB stands for and I am going to watch a Major League Baseball game, not a Major League Baseball baseball. An MLB baseball is a round object used in the game.
It's no different than ATM machine or PIN number. The redundant word is just not needed.
If we have to become an acronymed world, then we should at least use them right.
Someone has given away their age. "Esso" is the former name of Exxon. The name "Esso" comes from Standard Oil, the original name of the company. (S O -- get it?) Back in the 70's, Esso made a very public campaign that the company was changing its name to Exxon.
So, the poster is saying that "Esso oil" is redundant, because Esso means "Standard Oil".
Sidebar: When I first met my now-ex husband, about 30 years ago, we flew to Florida where his mother and brother lived. His brother was a sheriff's deputy in their county at the time. The mother had a police scanner and every conversation seemed to refer to meeting up at the Esso. His brother talked about being at the Esso all the time, too, so I thought the cops in this hick Florida town all hung out at a gas station.
Turned out they were talking about the Sheriff's Office.
Someone has given away their age. "Esso" is the former name of Exxon. The name "Esso" comes from Standard Oil, the original name of the company. (S O -- get it?) Back in the 70's, Esso made a very public campaign that the company was changing its name to Exxon.
So, the poster is saying that "Esso oil" is redundant, because Esso means "Standard Oil".
Sidebar: When I first met my now-ex husband, about 30 years ago, we flew to Florida where his mother and brother lived. His brother was a sheriff's deputy in their county at the time. The mother had a police scanner and every conversation seemed to refer to meeting up at the Esso. His brother talked about being at the Esso all the time, too, so I thought the cops in this hick Florida town all hung out at a gas station.
Turned out they were talking about the Sheriff's Office.
I'm in my 50s and probably should know all that. I don't drive and that probably explains a lot of my cluelessness.
I use to pump gas for my mom, and I love the smell of gas, but that is my full extent of putting any kind of liquid into a car, and my only knowledge of gas stations.
I watch NASCAR and still could not tell you one car maker from another. When someone asks me, "What kind of car was it?", I usually tell them what color it was because I seriously have no clue. I don't look at things like that.
I fully admit that there are two things in life (probably are more, but I haven't found them yet) that I am totally clueless about and I have no desire to acquire the knowledge: vehicles and politics.
Someone has given away their age. "Esso" is the former name of Exxon. The name "Esso" comes from Standard Oil, the original name of the company. (S O -- get it?) Back in the 70's, Esso made a very public campaign that the company was changing its name to Exxon.
So, the poster is saying that "Esso oil" is redundant, because Esso means "Standard Oil".
Sidebar: When I first met my now-ex husband, about 30 years ago, we flew to Florida where his mother and brother lived. His brother was a sheriff's deputy in their county at the time. The mother had a police scanner and every conversation seemed to refer to meeting up at the Esso. His brother talked about being at the Esso all the time, too, so I thought the cops in this hick Florida town all hung out at a gas station.
Turned out they were talking about the Sheriff's Office.
The history of Esso, probably more than you want to know:
But saying ATM machine or PIN number is redundant. If you expand the acronym into its full words, you see the reason. What you get is nonsense: automated teller machine machine or personal identification number number. The second use of the word does not add any useful information.
It adds clarity, which is not a bad thing. Do you take it as article of faith that every speaker of English, even as a second language, knows exactly what every letter stands for in an acronym?
I can tell you that I am handicapped by NAION, and I don't need to tell you that it is a form of blindness, because of course that would be redundant and nonsense, since you already know that the O stands for Optic, don't you? When communicating, isn't it better to err on the side of comprehension? Of is it better to just pepper a conversation with acronyms, and assume that every listener knows exactly what all of the letters mean?
It adds clarity, which is not a bad thing. Do you take it as article of faith that every speaker of English, even as a second language, knows exactly what every letter stands for in an acronym?
I can tell you that I an handicapped by NAION, and I don't need to tell you that it is a form of blindness, because of course that would be redundant and nonsense, since you already know that the O stands for Ophthalmic, don't you? When communicating, isn't it better to err on the side of comprehension? Of is it better to just pepper a conversation with acronyms, and assume that every listener knows exactly what all of the letters mean?
We are not really discussing all acronyms, just the ones where the terminal word in the acronym gets repeated unnecessarily. Saying ATM machine or PIN number are just two very common examples.
There is even a name for it: RAS Syndrome: redundant acronym syndrome syndrome!
Certainly there are acronyms --- medical and otherwise --- that need to be explained. I would submit, though, that if it needs to be explained, it probably should not be used.
Since most folks these days know what an ATM is, why add the word "machine" after it? Is there really a situation where someone would not know you meant personal identification number when you say PIN? If so, should you not just say "personal identification number"?
It adds clarity, which is not a bad thing. Do you take it as article of faith that every speaker of English, even as a second language, knows exactly what every letter stands for in an acronym?
I can tell you that I am handicapped by NAION, and I don't need to tell you that it is a form of blindness, because of course that would be redundant and nonsense, since you already know that the O stands for Optic, don't you? When communicating, isn't it better to err on the side of comprehension? Of is it better to just pepper a conversation with acronyms, and assume that every listener knows exactly what all of the letters mean?
I would think that everyone who uses an ATM and has a PIN would know what they are without the redundant "machine" or "number."
These acronyms are popular so most people know what the individual letters mean. Other acronyms are often used in conversation, such as EKG or MRI, and not everyone knows what the letters stand for but comprehend the meaning.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
