moving to cheyenne, Laramie area (sales, real estate, broker)

[minnesotagrown]

My husband and I are considering a move to Cheyenne, Wyoming. I have two questions:

1)According to the U.S. census bureau site, Wyoming is 3rd per capita for taxes. Why is this? I know you don't have income tax and compared to our property taxes you are lower.

2)Within a 40 mile radius of Cheyenne what would be a fair price for land per acre that you can build a house on? (We're looking at a range of 20 to 40 acres)

[sunsprit]

1) I've seen this quoted on a number of sites, and don't understand the methodology for the caluculation. I suspect that a lot of the total state taxes that are thrown in are things like mineral several taxes, paid by the mining industry to the state, in addition to property taxes paid by individuals. Take the total collected, divide by the number of residents (about 500,000), and it looks like people are paying a lot in taxes. Very misleading ... Wyoming is a low tax state, with low property taxes, low sales taxes, low fees for many state and local services. Part of that comes from the fact that we don't have the level of services that many other states provide.

2) You'd best be looking at a 40 acre parcel if you want to be away from municipal services for water and sewer, as that's the minimum acreage now acceptable to the state engineer for those doimestic use permits, except for previously platted parcels that may have prior approvals for building sites. Currently, raw prairie land (old dryland pasture ground) or old dryland ag ground is running about $2,000/acre in the area, with some parcels in more "exclusive" areas running up to $3,500 per acre.

There are several developments that are significantly higher priced, especially as you head out to the West or North areas, or parcels in the HR Ranch. The advantage is HOA's with more covenants, community facilites (indoor arenas, riding trails, clubhouses, etc), better roads (maybe...) and maintenance, covenant requirments for "nicer" housing (as opposed to you own it, put anything you care to put here mobile, modular, yurt, whatever ...), better views, more subirrigated meadows, etc.

You can easily spend well over $8,000 per acre if you want to be in the foothills towards the Veedauwoo area. I wouldn't advise that for year around living, but some folks seem to be building up that way .... a beautiful place to be in the summer and fall. You can also spend in this price range for some of the acreages now in the "annexed" areas around town, but you'll have the benefit of municipal utility services, paved roads, county plowed access in the winter, etc.

There are some acreages available that are priced a bit lower per acre, down around $1,000 per acre. I would approach these with caution ... there's a reason why they're as low as they are. There may be annexation issues looming (which will cost the owner a lot of money very soon), or there may be easements, defects, or proposed construction nearby (such as a wind farm) that could affect your "quiet enjoyment" of your place.

While there's no doubt that some properties are legitimate "distress deals" right now, be aware that it wouldn't be unusual for a broker to snap those up for their own resale ... the ethics of the real estate professionals around here is not what you've come to expect from other, more competitive markets. It's why you'll see a fair number of properties marketed with the disclosure "broker owned" in the ads.

As we've discussed before on many Wyoming property threads, it is up to you ... the buyer ... to perform your maximum due dilligence possible on any property that you're looking at putting your money into in this area. Do NOT take the agent's word for anything about a property. Get you own survey, go to the county offices and check zoning, easements, water rights, planned development ... in short, anything and everything that will affect your purchase before making an offer with earnest money on a property. Cheyenne real estate agents are professional at only one thing: misleading you into believing whatever you need to believe to spend money and close a deal. Otherwise, they'll be very vague or allow you to have your misconceptions about a property. If you need to have a well drilled or septic system put in, be sure zoning and state engineer approval is forthcoming; and check with the service providers about what their professional opinion is as to the projected costs of getting a producing well and legal septic system might be for the property. If there is a domestic well, get your own testing for quantity and quality ... far beyond the basic normal tests. With so much groundwater contamination in the area, you need to know what you're buying (and a realtor will tell you "it's OK" ... when he doesn't know or only has the most minimal of information).

Due to the weather, soils, and winds in the area, you must throw away any preconceived notions you have about siting a house and outbuildings from other areas of the country you've lived in. This is a very unique area, with specific problems that can be very costly or annoying to deal with ... to the point of making life here very miserable for you, and expensive to mitigate ... if at all.

[sunsprit]

Just wanted to add that a rural 40 acre property will still be zoned residential, not agricultural property.

Many folks are under the misconception that because they're out in a rural area, perhaps surrounded by ag or ranching properties, they're in an ag area when it comes to assessed property valuations. This is not so, a 40 acre parcel on dryland will be considered "residential" by the county assessor's office, which carries a much higher fair market value than ag land. You must have a minimum size parcel that's much larger than that and actually derive significant income from farming or ranching operations to qualify as agricultural ground.

IIRC, you'll need closer to a 1/4 section of land to qualify for the ag valuation, which is based upon the category of soils/useage, and a 5-year average of farm productivity value per acre over a statewide area. This results in a significant difference on your tax bill, as a residential property might be assessed at the $2,000/acre FMV (especially if that's what all the parcels were sold at by a developer in a subdivision), while the adjacent ranch might be assessed at 1/10th that value (which may still be a high number if the land isn't very dollar productive for it's owner).

Do keep in mind that Wyoming is a "non-reporting" state for real property sales. You cannot go to any public source of information to find out what comparable properties have sold for. You must seek out knowledgeable real estate firms that have been involved in the area sales and have a sense of the marketplace, or must retain the services of an appraiser who places a high value upon his knowledge of the sales activity. Your only indicator of pricing is to look at many properties and see what it asked for them ... and you must determine what is "comparable" to what you're looking at buying. Many times, properties are in the market on a "I'll sell it if I can get this much money for it" basis .... otherwise, not a motivated seller, just a fisherman.

[minnesotagrown]

Thanks Sunspirit for all the information. It is greatly appreciated and incredibly helpful!