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FACT is the top 5 states where people are leaving are Democratic states and the top 5 states where people are moving to are conservative states and you want to pass this off as coincidence?
You have a right to your opinion but reasonable,logical,rational people look at facts not feelings.
Liberals want to muddy the waters to see things through feelings and emotions, conservatives want to see facts and figures so they can make informed, educated decisions.
Fact is people are leaving the liberal states and moving to more conservative states and we know why, liberal policies are destructive to freedom and liberty. The migration patterns shows proof of this.
All of this conjecture is emotionally driven based on the tone of the post and is proving the opposite of your point.
Your logic is 5 states listed where people are moving from and 5 states where people are moving to are correlated based on politics and thus caused. Logic 101 will tell you correlation is not causation.
You, like ATR, are drawing an inference based on a set of facts. I am drawing an equally plausible inference on the same set of facts to demonstrate that ATRs inference is not a direct fact and that there are other logical factors. Ones that I didn't even come up with initially like retirement patterns, the overall southern shift of the population center and that the entire sunbelt has a much lower CoL when compared to the rust belt.
It is not mere coincidence that the rust belt is moving to the sun belt it has been happening for decades. Could politics play a role? Absolutely I never said to the contrary, but politics are not the direct cause of the entire migration there are many causes to the migration. You are insinuating that politics are the sole cause and based on my simple inference that cannot be, it is merely one piece in a large puzzle of factors.
As Lord Balfor also pointed out the data ATR uses is misleading and likely on purpose given the type of work they do and the type of policy they lobby for. It's called confirmation bias, you hold a belief and then seek out a set of facts that proves your belief. The set of facts are just a set of facts any inferences drawn from them are not facts but inferred correlations.
All of this conjecture is emotionally driven based on the tone of the post and is proving the opposite of your point.
Your logic is 5 states listed where people are moving from and 5 states where people are moving to are correlated based on politics and thus caused. Logic 101 will tell you correlation is not causation.
You, like ATR, are drawing an inference based on a set of facts. I am drawing an equally plausible inference on the same set of facts to demonstrate that ATRs inference is not a direct fact and that there are other logical factors. Ones that I didn't even come up with initially like retirement patterns, the overall southern shift of the population center and that the entire sunbelt has a much lower CoL when compared to the rust belt.
It is not mere coincidence that the rust belt is moving to the sun belt it has been happening for decades. Could politics play a role? Absolutely I never said to the contrary, but politics are not the direct cause of the entire migration there are many causes to the migration. You are insinuating that politics are the sole cause and based on my simple inference that cannot be, it is merely one piece in a large puzzle of factors.
As Lord Balfor also pointed out the data ATR uses is misleading and likely on purpose given the type of work they do and the type of policy they lobby for. It's called confirmation bias, you hold a belief and then seek out a set of facts that proves your belief. The set of facts are just a set of facts any inferences drawn from them are not facts but inferred correlations.
There is only so many times you can point out to someone that black is black and white is white.
Keep believing the lie that black is white since that is what you have made up your mind to do.
I should also point out that the article linked to by autism36 is very misleading (probably deliberately). The claim is that folks are leaving states with Democrat governors for those with GOP governors and the OP provides a "top 5" and "bottom 5" list to make it APPEAR that all the top states are GOP run while all the bottom states are Democrat run - but that's not the case at all. The top 5 states are not "Texas, Florida, South Carolina, North Carolina and Arizona". Those are simply the top 5 GOP-run states. Likewise the bottom 5 states are not all Democrat-run at all. Instead that "bottom 5" list is not the actual "bottom 5" but only the "bottom 5" of the Democrat-run states.
IF you actually go to the IRS web site linked to and drill down you'll see that the actual top 5 states are Texas, Florida, South Carolina, COLORADO and North Carolina. Colorado has a Democrat for its' governor.
Likewise the bottom 5 states are actually "PENNSYLVANIA, NEW JERSEY,California, Illinois and New York'" Of those Pennsylvania had (at the time the data was tabulated) a GOP governor. and of course so does New Jersey. So 2 of the "bottom 5" states were (at the time in question) GOP run.
The upshot is that there is no specific correlation between what party is leading the state and whether or not the list of tax-payers is growing or shrinking. Some Democrat-run states are growing and some are shrinking. Some GOP-run states are growing and some are shrinking.
In effect, the article that autism36 refers to is simply a misleading pile of BS.
Here is the actual IRS document, showing the REAL top 5 and bottom 5 without cherry-picking to winnow out GOP-led states from the bottom 5 and the Democrat-run state from the top 5:
Articles such as the one linked to by Autism360 are the reason sources such as ATR are not to be trusted. Americans for Tax Reform has a very specific right-wing agenda and they simply twist the facts though careful omission and other dishonest techniques to try and push their agenda. If their case was really so strong there would be no need to twist the facts with such techniques.
Ken
So the Daily Beast is also wrong. You liberals cannot get away from the Alinsky rule book. I did provide the link to the IRS site, this is the site I provided earlier go back and recheck your facts
Here are some helpful quotes you will find on the link provided
Quote:
If liberal approaches work so well, why are so many people choosing to pack their bags and deserting some of the most big-government states in the union?
California has become a sad symbol of dysfunctional government at its shabbiest, shadiest, most sclerotic, and irresponsible—an exquisitely painful irony for those of us who recall the Golden State’s onetime position in the national imagination. Not so long ago, the whole nation (or at least its most enterprising and adventurous elements) seemed to envy the state and to embrace the notion of “California Dreamin’.”New census numbers show citizens fleeing by the millions from liberal states and flocking in comparable numbers to bastions of right-wing sentiment. Call it the Great Political Migration.
Last edited by autism360; 09-22-2015 at 01:42 AM..
So the Daily Beast is also wrong. You liberals cannot get away from the Alinsky rule book. I did provide the link to the IRS site, this is the site I provided earlier go back and recheck your facts
Here are some helpful quotes you will find on the link provided
And if you click on the "Migration Data OneSheet" PDF link on that IRS site that YOU just LINKED to. it shows the ACTUAL top 5 inflow migration and the ACTUAL bottom 5 states - not states cherry picked to exclude Democrat-run states from the top 5 and to exclude GOP-run in the bottom 5.
As mentioned, there is NO specific correlation between folks leaving or going to a state and which party the governor of that state belongs to. One of the top 5 states is Democrat-run and 2 of the bottom states is GOP-run.
The "taxpayers are fleeing blue states for red states article" is pure BS. Even your own IRS link shows that.
And if you click on the "Migration Data OneSheet" PDF link on that IRS site that YOU just LINKED to. it shows the ACTUAL top 5 inflow migration and the ACTUAL bottom 5 states - not states cherry picked to exclude Democrat-run states from the top 5 and to exclude GOP-run in the bottom 5.
As mentioned, there is NO specific correlation between folks leaving or going to a state and which party the governor of that state belongs to. One of the top 5 states is Democrat-run and 2 of the bottom states is GOP-run.
The "taxpayers are fleeing blue states for red states article" is pure BS. Even your own IRS link shows that.
Ken
Ok then list the 5 states that are losing thousand population and the and the top 5 states that are gaining population and show us your data source.
You never addressed the fact that your own liberal friends at the Daily beast readily admit in the link provided that I am right and you are wrong.
So the Daily Beast is also wrong. You liberals cannot get away from the Alinsky rule book. I did provide the link to the IRS site, this is the site I provided earlier go back and recheck your facts
Here are some helpful quotes you will find on the link provided
Quote:
If liberal approaches work so well, why are so many people choosing to pack their bags and deserting some of the most big-government states in the union?
California has become a sad symbol of dysfunctional government at its shabbiest, shadiest, most sclerotic, and irresponsible—an exquisitely painful irony for those of us who recall the Golden State’s onetime position in the national imagination. Not so long ago, the whole nation (or at least its most enterprising and adventurous elements) seemed to envy the state and to embrace the notion of “California Dreamin’.”New census numbers show citizens fleeing by the millions from liberal states and flocking in comparable numbers to bastions of right-wing sentiment. Call it the Great Political Migration.Between 2009 and 2010 the five biggest losers in terms of “residents lost to other states” were all prominent redoubts of progressivism: California, New York, Illinois, Michigan, and New Jersey. Meanwhile, the five biggest winners in the relocation sweepstakes are all commonly identified as red states in which Republicans generally dominate local politics: Florida, Texas, North Carolina, Arizona, and Georgia. Expanding the review to a 10-year span, the biggest population gainers (in percentage terms) have been even more conservative than last year’s winners: Nevada, Arizona, Utah, Idaho, and Texas, in that order.
Ok then list the 5 states that are losing thousand population and the and the top 5 states that are gaining population and show us your data source.
You never addressed the fact that your own liberal friends at the Daily beast readily admit in the link provided that I am right and you are wrong.
So the Daily Beast is also wrong. You liberals cannot get away from the Alinsky rule book. I did provide the link to the IRS site, this is the site I provided earlier go back and recheck your facts
Here are some helpful quotes you will find on the link provided
Quote:
If liberal approaches work so well, why are so many people choosing to pack their bags and deserting some of the most big-government states in the union?
California has become a sad symbol of dysfunctional government at its shabbiest, shadiest, most sclerotic, and irresponsible—an exquisitely painful irony for those of us who recall the Golden State’s onetime position in the national imagination. Not so long ago, the whole nation (or at least its most enterprising and adventurous elements) seemed to envy the state and to embrace the notion of “California Dreamin’.”New census numbers show citizens fleeing by the millions from liberal states and flocking in comparable numbers to bastions of right-wing sentiment. Call it the Great Political Migration.Between 2009 and 2010 the five biggest losers in terms of “residents lost to other states” were all prominent redoubts of progressivism: California, New York, Illinois, Michigan, and New Jersey. Meanwhile, the five biggest winners in the relocation sweepstakes are all commonly identified as red states in which Republicans generally dominate local politics: Florida, Texas, North Carolina, Arizona, and Georgia. Expanding the review to a 10-year span, the biggest population gainers (in percentage terms) have been even more conservative than last year’s winners: Nevada, Arizona, Utah, Idaho, and Texas, in that order.
His link from the IRS even had pictures and graphs couldn't be more clear I don't see why you can't click on a link.
Daily Beast. That is a syndicated piece by Michael Medved, a conservative radio host and writer of books like Right Turn and The Case Against Divorce, who on his website describes himself as
His link from the IRS even had pictures and graphs couldn't be more clear I don't see why you can't click on a link.
Daily Beast. That is a syndicated piece by Michael Medved, a conservative radio host and writer of books like Right Turn and The Case Against Divorce, who on his website describes himself as
Oh so because he is a conservative writing for a liberal new site that makes all the statistics null and void ? You are a saying only liberals can post facts?
Then you should have no problem listing the states gaining population and losing population.
Hint the states losing population are ALL liberal states. according to the IRS website
Pennsylvania
New Jersey
California
Illinois
New York
Ok then list the 5 states that are losing thousand population and the and the top 5 states that are gaining population and show us your data source.
You never addressed the fact that your own liberal friends at the Daily beast readily admit in the link provided that I am right and you are wrong.
So the Daily Beast is also wrong. You liberals cannot get away from the Alinsky rule book. I did provide the link to the IRS site, this is the site I provided earlier go back and recheck your facts
Here are some helpful quotes you will find on the link provided
Quote:
If liberal approaches work so well, why are so many people choosing to pack their bags and deserting some of the most big-government states in the union?
California has become a sad symbol of dysfunctional government at its shabbiest, shadiest, most sclerotic, and irresponsible—an exquisitely painful irony for those of us who recall the Golden State’s onetime position in the national imagination. Not so long ago, the whole nation (or at least its most enterprising and adventurous elements) seemed to envy the state and to embrace the notion of “California Dreamin’.”New census numbers show citizens fleeing by the millions from liberal states and flocking in comparable numbers to bastions of right-wing sentiment. Call it the Great Political Migration.Between 2009 and 2010 the five biggest losers in terms of “residents lost to other states” were all prominent redoubts of progressivism: California, New York, Illinois, Michigan, and New Jersey. Meanwhile, the five biggest winners in the relocation sweepstakes are all commonly identified as red states in which Republicans generally dominate local politics: Florida, Texas, North Carolina, Arizona, and Georgia. Expanding the review to a 10-year span, the biggest population gainers (in percentage terms) have been even more conservative than last year’s winners: Nevada, Arizona, Utah, Idaho, and Texas, in that order.
For the - what is it, the THIRD TIME? - I DID show my source. Can you not read, or did you not even bother. It's RIGHT HERE:
Top 5 states (gaining the most people): Texas, Florida, South Carolina, COLORADO, North Carolina.
Bottom 5 states (losing the most people): PENNSYLVANIA, NEW JERSEY, California, Illinois, New York
The states that are capitalized have (or had at the time of the data collection) a GOP governor. New Jersey does have 2 Democratic Senators, but 6 of its' 12 U.S. Congressmen are Republicans. Combined with it's GOP governor, how does that make it a Democratic bastion?
In the case of Pennsylvania, at the time of the data collection is had a GOP Governor and it has a GOP MAJORITY in both the state Senate and the state House. At the Federal level PA has one Democratic Senator and one GOP Senator, and in the U.S. House it has 5 Democrats and 13 GOP members.
So how does that make Pennsylvania any kind of Democratic bastion?
So TWO of the top 5 "losing states" not really Blue at all - and one of them is clearly pretty Red, with the GOP dominating BOTH it's state houses and it's representation in D.C.
As I said earlier, one can make just as good a case that the folks in question are leaving the north for south for the WEATHER as they can that they are leaving the north for the south because of POLITICS - the correlation is just as strong. The fact is neither you nor the authors of the articles in question have any idea of WHY the migration is happening - you and they are simply jumping to a conclusion without any consideration of OTHER differences between the "losing" and "winning" states, so I wouldn't gloat too much that folks from those states that ARE blue are moving to those states that ARE red. You have NO IDEA of the political leanings of those folks heading south - or WHY they are moving south. Lots of those folks are moving south for the WEATHER - and many of them are no doubt BLUE. Those states that ARE red, will very likely start to turn PURPLE as folks from those cold northern states head for warmer winters.
Ken
Last edited by LordBalfor; 09-26-2015 at 12:19 PM..
I Independent and most Arizonians like my self take a dim view of Peace,Love Dope, Liberal crowd. Arizona has never been a hand out state and most people work very hard in raising their families. The reason why Liberals are moving to Arizona is because their fallen states Like California can not offer the freedoms to a level of descent living.
I Miss the Desert and will return. Let me tell you Money is not everything and where you live and how you live is more important.
Do not worry Arizona, one summer of 115 degrees will send these liberals back to SF and LA where they belong. That what I love about the Valley, Summer heat send right back to Ohio and New York!
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