Why is teacher pay so low in AZ? (low income, daycare)

[MtBierstadt]

Originally Posted by kell490

You get what you pay for low pay get low quality.

This is 100% accurate.


You want to attract better teachers; that is, those that are not within the bottom quartile of college students? Pay more. Then maybe you will start attracting those from STEM fields to go into teaching.

[newtoaz20172]

because Arizona wants low property taxes to fuel its real estate market, which is a huge driver of growth here. Most people who can make change or care are spending money to keep their kids in private schools.

[KurtAZ]

Originally Posted by newtoaz20172

because Arizona wants low property taxes to fuel its real estate market, which is a huge driver of growth here. Most people who can make change or care are spending money to keep their kids in private schools.

I don't know if this is 100% accurate. Each district periodically passes bonds to cover expenses the State and Local funding doesn't cover. CUSD has a $290M bond on the ballot this year and I can pretty much guarantee it will pass. None of that can go to teacher's pay but it does free up some budget money. These Bonds are paid for by increasing our property tax rates...so while some areas of the state don't want an increase in property taxes...Chandler has effectively raised our own tax rate 2.367%.

As far as Private School teacher pay...I thought that was worse? Or do their numbers include private day cares? Something like $29k average if I remember correctly?

[kell490]

Some good information here although I feel like the Goldwater institute is only out to keep tax low while not exactly interested in teacher pay trying to point out the school district is very wasteful. When I think of Goldwater Institute bunch of old white gray haired rich men sitting around a large desk trying to figure out how to lower their personal tax rate to 0 on the billions of dollars they have.

Goldwater institute https://goldwaterinstitute.org/artic...ing-2016-2018/

"However, because school district offices still determine school budgets and teacher salaries, there are no guarantees that more state spending will result in increased teacher pay, nor does this additional spending address ongoing wasteful practices among school districts."


Arizona 3rd worst school district in the nation just above Louisiana, and New Mexico https://wallethub.com/edu/states-wit...-schools/5335/

What I find interesting is some other states like Wyoming ranks 10th would never think be in the upper range of the ranking due to tax rates not nearly has high is East Coast states. Maybe there is some truth that high tax rates don't always translate to good public schools.

[wase4711]

Originally Posted by kell490

Maybe there is some truth that high tax rates don't always translate to good public schools.

correct; Chicago is a perfect example of how highly paid teachers can provide a horrible education to thousands of students...higher pay does not guarantee better teachers or better education for kids..

[kell490]

Originally Posted by wase4711

correct; Chicago is a perfect example of how highly paid teachers can provide a horrible education to thousands of students...higher pay does not guarantee better teachers or better education for kids..

I didn't say higher pay does not guarantee better teachers I said higher tax doesn't always mean higher pay for teachers. The Goldwater institute pointed out because district administration can use the money for other things instead of teacher pay.

The fact is clear Arizona school system is the one of 3 worst schools system in all 50 states. That's not going to bring business here who wants their kids educated in one of the worst schools in the nation???

That's not a badge of honor and the state legislature and Governor should be ashamed of the situation be working to change it. This should be top priority to fix this situation yet all they do is make excuses and try to candy coat the situation.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by newtoaz20172

because Arizona wants low property taxes to fuel its real estate market, which is a huge driver of growth here. Most people who can make change or care are spending money to keep their kids in private schools.

Anybody who has kids and truly cares about their kids' education CAN and SHOULD pay the money to have them attend a reputable private school, in which the educational standards exceed even the "best" public schools.

Originally Posted by KurtAZ

I don't know if this is 100% accurate. Each district periodically passes bonds to cover expenses the State and Local funding doesn't cover. CUSD has a $290M bond on the ballot this year and I can pretty much guarantee it will pass. None of that can go to teacher's pay but it does free up some budget money. These Bonds are paid for by increasing our property tax rates...so while some areas of the state don't want an increase in property taxes...Chandler has effectively raised our own tax rate 2.367%.

As far as Private School teacher pay...I thought that was worse? Or do their numbers include private day cares? Something like $29k average if I remember correctly?

I always vote an adamant NO on every single bond override in my district because I do not want my property taxes to increase. Even despite property taxes in AZ being fairly reasonable compared to other parts of the country, the percentage of taxes we pay for education is atrocious. Unfortunately, I'm usually in the minority because almost every bond has passed by voters, meaning my taxes will be raised regardless.

Originally Posted by wase4711

correct; Chicago is a perfect example of how highly paid teachers can provide a horrible education to thousands of students...higher pay does not guarantee better teachers or better education for kids..

Just like more taxation and spending is no guarantee of better education results. We have seen this evidence an overwhelming amount of times, but the breeders, the socialists, and the moochers don't seem to get the message!

[Burning Madolf]

Originally Posted by kell490

I didn't say higher pay does not guarantee better teachers I said higher tax doesn't always mean higher pay for teachers. The Goldwater institute pointed out because district administration can use the money for other things instead of teacher pay.

The fact is clear Arizona school system is the one of 3 worst schools system in all 50 states. That's not going to bring business here who wants their kids educated in one of the worst schools in the nation???

That's not a badge of honor and the state legislature and Governor should be ashamed of the situation be working to change it. This should be top priority to fix this situation yet all they do is make excuses and try to candy coat the situation.

People keep moving here from all over the country (including states with the "best" schools) because they can read the writing on the wall that massive fraud, waste and abuse of government run entities including "education", is and always has been, running rampant and has actually destroyed states (especially their balance sheets).



Claiming that more money will solve the situation is absolutely wrong. You mention the Governor and the legislature but you fail to mention (among others) the school boards (usually filled with partisan edu-crat hacks) and the moronic Department of Education. Most of these people are unaccountable and do not miraculously become financial wizards just because they received an appointment or won an election.



Look at my post #13 in this thread. In addition to what I said there, that district will be coming forward again in November asking for more bond money (about $152 million), none of which will go to making better students and teachers but to a bunch of shiny new stuff to make it look like everything is awesome! Priorities are all %$&##% up.



Government education has become nothing more than an enormous jobs program where the #1 concern is creating more jobs. At a time when we should be looking to adjust and solve serious future issues (e.g. more AI means less workers needed, less full time employment opportunities, etc.) using the same tax and promise template of government education is exactly the wrong approach.


I know I'm spitting in the wind trying to convince anyone that throwing more money at education is not the only answer. I'm also pretty sure I'll be able to outrun a real debt tsunami but the kids who are getting the "benefit" of all this spending won't be so lucky. So I say go for it! Crank up the pay! Crank up the taxes! And get me some free #$%$ while you're at it. But for a look into the future here's a nice little note from a state that boasts great k-12 and people are fleeing everyday: https://www.courant.com/opinion/insi...vhm-story.html

[Returning2USA]

Originally Posted by veritased

I am generally conservative leaning, and I maintain that basic economics dictates the status quo.
However, that oversimplifies things, and I also see the good argument for a reasonable wage for certain types of jobs.

No, I do not believe a teacher should work nights. But maybe they should work summers, too, though, like the rest of us.

The problem is they work for the state, and there is no accountability, it seems, for bad teachers, and no rewards for good teachers, so salaries naturally trend to the 'expected value' of teachers, which assumes to be quite low.

Generally it sucks to be on the hourly minimum wage hose, post high school, because you have very little time/energy left over after a 60 hour work week to learn skills to get ahead. Yes, I am a believer in don't make bad choices that ********* over for a lifetime. But damn, working for $11/hr for 60 hours a week, and then needing to work yet another job?!

Conclusion: Do better in school, people. Go to college or vocational school with a learning roadmap!
At least until Pocahontas Warren gets elected and taxes the rich to death to provide for the famous living wage.

Your last paragraph tells people not to get an MA in education and have a career teaching.

[kell490]

Originally Posted by Burning Madolf

People keep moving here from all over the country (including states with the "best" schools) because they can read the writing on the wall that massive fraud, waste and abuse of government run entities including "education", is and always has been, running rampant and has actually destroyed states (especially their balance sheets).



Claiming that more money will solve the situation is absolutely wrong. You mention the Governor and the legislature but you fail to mention (among others) the school boards (usually filled with partisan edu-crat hacks) and the moronic Department of Education. Most of these people are unaccountable and do not miraculously become financial wizards just because they received an appointment or won an election.



Look at my post #13 in this thread. In addition to what I said there, that district will be coming forward again in November asking for more bond money (about $152 million), none of which will go to making better students and teachers but to a bunch of shiny new stuff to make it look like everything is awesome! Priorities are all %$&##% up.



Government education has become nothing more than an enormous jobs program where the #1 concern is creating more jobs. At a time when we should be looking to adjust and solve serious future issues (e.g. more AI means less workers needed, less full time employment opportunities, etc.) using the same tax and promise template of government education is exactly the wrong approach.


I know I'm spitting in the wind trying to convince anyone that throwing more money at education is not the only answer. I'm also pretty sure I'll be able to outrun a real debt tsunami but the kids who are getting the "benefit" of all this spending won't be so lucky. So I say go for it! Crank up the pay! Crank up the taxes! And get me some free #$%$ while you're at it. But for a look into the future here's a nice little note from a state that boasts great k-12 and people are fleeing everyday: https://www.courant.com/opinion/insi...vhm-story.html

I agree I never said higher tax translates to higher teacher pay. School boards don't control state laws the legislature, and governor are responsible for the system we have. I'm no expert in school district politics, but paying teachers $37k a year gets you the 3rd from the bottom education. If the Arizona constitution needs to be changed to fix it put a ballot measure to the people it will be passed by-pass school boards. You know red for ed will be back on the ballot again only a matter of time it will pass.

When I see Ducey on TV saying the schools are not that bad he's trying to candy coat these ratings show AZ schools sitting with poorest states in the nation it's a joke.