Proposition 208 (Phoenix, Scottsdale, Sun City: transplants, real estate, school districts)
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So, you think parents are just qualified to teach all the instruction that kids learn at schools? Somehow, they magically develop all the skills/education they need to succeed in life as our future leaders? Does it not matter to you that poorly funded schools statistically lead to worse outcomes in life, which directly impact our success as a society?
I'm saying that parents with kids in the public system are the ones who need to pay for education. We don't have "poorly funded schools" ... in fact, education accounts for one of the top expenditures in Arizona's state budget (and most other states for that matter). Does it not matter to you that Prop 208 is a huge tax increase that will hurt small business owners, and will do little or nothing for education? Stuffing more of our money in a black hole is not a solution.
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadwarrior101
Or is it that you are old and bitter and probably won't be alive that much longer anyway, so you don't care on the long-term affects to society?
What makes you think parents who stick their kids in public schools are automatically entitled to everything being "free"? Or is it that you are one of those breeders who sponge off the system, and automatically ASSume that those who are opposed to more taxes are old & bitter?
The ones who actually use the public education system are the ones who should pay all of the taxes, regardless of how much their annual income is. This especially applies to the moochers who use the system as free babysitting for their offspring. Nothing in life is "free", and some people's attitudes about schools being a benefit to everybody is disgusting. Public schools don't benefit me at all ... in fact, all they do is drain my wallet for thousands of dollars every year in property taxes, and I get nothing in return.
Actually, Arizona has a long history of voting FOR these education propositions. Practically every ballot initiative in this regard has been approved by the voters over the last 20 years, and that should be a strong indication to you that we need to quit this nonsense of throwing more money at the beast. We keep raising taxes for schools, but still get the same results. If you personally would like to contribute more of your money to education, knock yourself out, but please don't force everybody else to do so ... especially those who don't use the school system!
I always vote the opposite on anything that claims to be "for the children" or will "protect children". I don't have kids, and other people's "precious darlings" are not my responsibility. If parents are not able or willing to raise, support, and protect their children on their own, then they have no business being parents in the first place.
One could make an argument that they don't have a car why should they have to pay for street maintenance. There is endless arguments could be made about that I never call the police why should I pay for them.
One of the advantages of Sun City schools are not built keep property tax low move to a 55 and older community.
What makes you think parents who stick their kids in public schools are automatically entitled to everything being "free"? Or is it that you are one of those breeders who sponge off the system, and automatically ASSume that those who are opposed to more taxes are old & bitter?
What do you mean they're entitled to something for free? Do you have data to show that none of these people would be contributors under the tax?
How about we take away Social Security and Medicare payments for younger workers, since they're not currently beneficiaries under this tax? They're funding the benefits of the elderly and may not see the benefits of this by retirement age.
In a civilized society, we all contribute for the well being of the entire society, which includes funding for basic elements of common good, such as public services, education and healthcare. But, I guess your Me, Me, Me mentality means you could care less about anyone else. Do you want us to be a banana republic like Brazil where you have to protect yourself by living in a compound with an electrified fence? That's the direction we're going with income inequality in this country and what will happen if we don't fund more programs for the common good of others. So much for Christian values.
I'm saying that parents with kids in the public system are the ones who need to pay for education. We don't have "poorly funded schools" ... in fact, education accounts for one of the top expenditures in Arizona's state budget (and most other states for that matter). Does it not matter to you that Prop 208 is a huge tax increase that will hurt small business owners, and will do little or nothing for education? Stuffing more of our money in a black hole is not a solution.
What makes you think parents who stick their kids in public schools are automatically entitled to everything being "free"? Or is it that you are one of those breeders who sponge off the system, and automatically ASSume that those who are opposed to more taxes are old & bitter?
I am with you. I don't care if you are old and bitter. Don't mind the name calling. Enough with the money grab. In my state CA, the money grabbers will appeal to voters with slogans like "it's for the kids.", "it's for public safety.", "it's for the homeless." And just like that, your money is taken from you but the problems remain unfixed. A few years later, they will sing the same tunes again and again.
What do you mean they're entitled to something for free? Do you have data to show that none of these people would be contributors under the tax?
What I mean is: parents with children in the public schools reap all the benefits, but contribute very little. It costs an average of over $12K per year to educate ONE child, and you know very well that the average person doesn't pay anywhere close to that amount in taxes. Even parents who pay higher property taxes than the average are still taking more than they put in. Do the math! The whole system is unfairly slanted against those who don't use public schools. We are consistently paying into the system, but are getting nothing in return.
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadwarrior101
How about we take away Social Security and Medicare payments for younger workers, since they're not currently beneficiaries under this tax? They're funding the benefits of the elderly and may not see the benefits of this by retirement age.
Honestly, I wouldn't mind a more privatized form of SS or Medicare. However, consider that the amount of Social Security a person receives at retirement is largely dependent on the amount he/she contributes to the system during the working years. In other words, SS is much more of a balanced give & take system. Using this method, why shouldn't parents contribute more out of their own pockets to ensure their children receive better education? Since they made the choice to procreate, they should be more financially responsible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi
Actually this very post makes you sound old and bitter. And certainly selfish. We all pay taxes, and we all reap the benefits of taxes. Including you.
People who have kids without being able to afford the costs, and expect the taxpayers to subsidize their lifestyles are the selfish ones. Parents who use the schools as their own free daycare service are the selfish ones. Truthfully, I wouldn't mind paying education taxes if they weren't so enormously expensive. A few extra pennies in sales taxes wouldn't be so bad, but what I resent is having to shell out thousands of dollars in property taxes for schools in my district that I don't use ... and most of all, schools which have been closed since March! Buses haven't been running, facilities haven't been fully operational, and children have been doing online learning (which is cheaper), but yet my taxes certainly haven't been reduced any! I don't know what fantasy world you're living in, but I haven't been reaping any benefits from paying school taxes.
What I mean is: parents with children in the public schools reap all the benefits, but contribute very little. It costs an average of over $12K per year to educate ONE child, and you know very well that the average person doesn't pay anywhere close to that amount in taxes. Even parents who pay higher property taxes than the average are still taking more than they put in. Do the math! The whole system is unfairly slanted against those who don't use public schools. We are consistently paying into the system, but are getting nothing in return.
Have you ever considered that the reason why people send their kids to private schools are that public schools aren't funded well? The resources are further dispersed by the push towards charter schools. If you continue to vote against funding public schools, you exasperate the problem. Perhaps you are ok with the concept that quality education and opportunities are reserved for the wealthy only. I'm not ok with this and think this degrades our society as a whole.
Easy fix if you don't want to pay property tax for schools move to 55 and older community. I plan to do that not there yet but a few more years and I can. Wife and I never had kids, but I'm not so upset about paying for schools property tax in Arizona is low when you compare to other states.
One could make an argument that they don't have a car why should they have to pay for street maintenance. There is endless arguments could be made about that I never call the police why should I pay for them.
Consider that the cost of roads, transit, law enforcement, fire, libraries, etc., etc. are a fraction of a penny compared to the cost of public education. If you own a home, look at your property tax statement as a good example. Over 60% of those taxes go to schools, which for most of us, adds up to thousands of dollars. If we were taxed for education at roughly the same amount as we pay for police, it wouldn't be such a big deal. As it stands, public education is too costly and has too many flaws. The disgusting part is the system keeps demanding more money, which is largely wasted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadwarrior101
Have you ever considered that the reason why people send their kids to private schools are that public schools aren't funded well? The resources are further dispersed by the push towards charter schools. If you continue to vote against funding public schools, you exasperate the problem. Perhaps you are ok with the concept that quality education and opportunities are reserved for the wealthy only. I'm not ok with this and think this degrades our society as a whole.
Parents who send their kids to private schools are generally the intelligent ones who believe in investing their own money in quality education, rather than having the government/taxpayers subsidize mediocre public schools. Consider also that the majority of private schools produce much better educational quality than even the "best" public ones. There was even a report a few years ago which stated that kids who attend private school are much more likely to become college graduates.
Also, don't even suggest that only the wealthy can afford private education. I came from a family that was barely middle class, and my parents sent us to private school during our elementary & junior high years. They paid for it out of their own pockets, and we simply did without many of the luxuries. Perhaps if people would quit blowing their money on ridiculous gadgets (smart phones, and other "smart" devices which are anything but smart), they could afford to send their children to good quality private schools instead of having their hands in everybody else's wallets!
Consider that the cost of roads, transit, law enforcement, fire, libraries, etc., etc. are a fraction of a penny compared to the cost of public education. If you own a home, look at your property tax statement as a good example. Over 60% of those taxes go to schools, which for most of us, adds up to thousands of dollars. If we were taxed for education at roughly the same amount as we pay for police, it wouldn't be such a big deal. As it stands, public education is too costly and has too many flaws. The disgusting part is the system keeps demanding more money, which is largely wasted.
Parents who send their kids to private schools are generally the intelligent ones who believe in investing their own money in quality education, rather than having the government/taxpayers subsidize mediocre public schools. Consider also that the majority of private schools produce much better educational quality than even the "best" public ones. There was even a report a few years ago which stated that kids who attend private school are much more likely to become college graduates.
Also, don't even suggest that only the wealthy can afford private education. I came from a family that was barely middle class, and my parents sent us to private school during our elementary & junior high years. They paid for it out of their own pockets, and we simply did without many of the luxuries. Perhaps if people would quit blowing their money on ridiculous gadgets (smart phones, and other "smart" devices which are anything but smart), they could afford to send their children to good quality private schools instead of having their hands in everybody else's wallets!
This is why I don't understand how other states are able to manage their schools better what are they doing. AZ doesn't have to be in the top 10 highest taxed states, but somewhere in the middle would be just fine with me. Does Montana, Utah, and a few other states have higher tax? AZ needs to figure this problem out. Just throwing money at it probalby won't fix it, but I don't know what those other states spend on their schools.
Parents who send their kids to private schools are generally the intelligent ones who believe in investing their own money in quality education, rather than having the government/taxpayers subsidize mediocre public schools. Consider also that the majority of private schools produce much better educational quality than even the "best" public ones. There was even a report a few years ago which stated that kids who attend private school are much more likely to become college graduates.
Also, don't even suggest that only the wealthy can afford private education. I came from a family that was barely middle class, and my parents sent us to private school during our elementary & junior high years. They paid for it out of their own pockets, and we simply did without many of the luxuries. Perhaps if people would quit blowing their money on ridiculous gadgets (smart phones, and other "smart" devices which are anything but smart), they could afford to send their children to good quality private schools instead of having their hands in everybody else's wallets!
You're making a sweeping generalization that just because your parents were able to afford to send you to private education that everyone else should be able to do so. Do you know the financial situation of everyone else? Is the reason why many people cannot afford private schools because they're all spending money frivolously on gadgets? How about those that are having to work 2 jobs just to pay the rent, utilities and put some food on the table? Are you saying that they're not entitled to a quality education? Or are you saying that they should go hungry or live on the street so that they can afford the right to provide a better future for their children?
I swear, the Republicans like to throw this term elitist around but they are exuding these behaviors themselves in their views and actions.
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