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Old 11-29-2015, 06:48 PM
 
277 posts, read 205,492 times
Reputation: 178

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North China is hitting near apocalyptic like levels of pollution, especially this coming Northern Hemisphere Winter, especially in cities like Shenyang.


Can China ever remove it's pollution or at least get it back to somewhat not so dangerous levels? I think it's just too many people and now with some dollars being earned, everyone there wants to live a Western lifestyle (cars, modern conveniences like heaters, air conditioners etc.)


Japan and Korea was once very polluted due to factories there but managed to clean up relatively well, but China is 10x bigger - 10 x the problems and size of the problems.


I can see the biggest issues:


- Inefficient factories.
- Coal burning stations.
- Cars.


Can they clean up in the foreseeable future?
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Old 11-30-2015, 12:52 AM
 
Location: San Francisco
317 posts, read 238,029 times
Reputation: 218
This winter it has been particularly bad - particularly with all the heating power plants using coal. AQI was 500 today - but didn't stop the kids from having morning assembly. I really fear for people's health in the long run - I just have 7 more months in this part of China but what's the future.
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Old 11-30-2015, 01:03 AM
 
1,789 posts, read 1,451,783 times
Reputation: 3680
Quote:
Originally Posted by willister View Post

I can see the biggest issues:


- Inefficient factories.
- Coal burning stations.
- Cars.


Can they clean up in the foreseeable future?
At a glance those may seem to be the the biggest issues, however there are several more pressing concerns.

All those you listed deal with only air pollution. Easily fixed if the politburo will make the laws to clean the coal plant exhaust, and pass some car exhaust restrictions.

That doesn't deal with their other bigger problems.

Water pollution. More than 50% of Chinas surface water is too polluted to treat and use. Let that sink in. Its beyond salvaging.

90% of the ground water is contaminated with 60% being classified as "severely polluted".

Chemicals and heavy metals long banned or restricted in Europe and North America are routinely dumped straight into rivers.

Desertification. About 1 million sq miles of Chinese land (thats about a 1/4 of it) is undergoing desertification because of poor ag and industrial practices.

Yes they could easily deal with their air pollution problems if they have the simple will power to do it. The other problems however are not so easy or quick to fix.
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Old 11-30-2015, 05:36 AM
 
277 posts, read 205,492 times
Reputation: 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by justanokie View Post
At a glance those may seem to be the the biggest issues, however there are several more pressing concerns.

All those you listed deal with only air pollution. Easily fixed if the politburo will make the laws to clean the coal plant exhaust, and pass some car exhaust restrictions.

That doesn't deal with their other bigger problems.

Water pollution. More than 50% of Chinas surface water is too polluted to treat and use. Let that sink in. Its beyond salvaging.

90% of the ground water is contaminated with 60% being classified as "severely polluted".

Chemicals and heavy metals long banned or restricted in Europe and North America are routinely dumped straight into rivers.

Desertification. About 1 million sq miles of Chinese land (thats about a 1/4 of it) is undergoing desertification because of poor ag and industrial practices.

Yes they could easily deal with their air pollution problems if they have the simple will power to do it. The other problems however are not so easy or quick to fix.
Sadness...it will just become a wasteland...

Economic success and this is the price you pay.
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Old 11-30-2015, 11:27 AM
 
1,424 posts, read 736,686 times
Reputation: 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by justanokie View Post
At a glance those may seem to be the the biggest issues, however there are several more pressing concerns.

All those you listed deal with only air pollution. Easily fixed if the politburo will make the laws to clean the coal plant exhaust, and pass some car exhaust restrictions.

That doesn't deal with their other bigger problems.

Water pollution. More than 50% of Chinas surface water is too polluted to treat and use. Let that sink in. Its beyond salvaging.

90% of the ground water is contaminated with 60% being classified as "severely polluted".

Chemicals and heavy metals long banned or restricted in Europe and North America are routinely dumped straight into rivers.

Desertification. About 1 million sq miles of Chinese land (thats about a 1/4 of it) is undergoing desertification because of poor ag and industrial practices.

Yes they could easily deal with their air pollution problems if they have the simple will power to do it. The other problems however are not so easy or quick to fix.
I see your point but I seriously doubt the data are accurate.

For example, over 1/4 of China is Tibetan Plateau, where it is just cold with very few human activities.. Another 1/4 is already desert or something similar.
If you say 1/4 of China is undergoing desertification, that is to say half of China's arable land is being desertificated. Anyone who has really been to China will say it is unbelievable.

The pollution of China is not as bad as in India, Iran and many other countries, but you don't see reports on other countries so much.
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Old 11-30-2015, 11:28 AM
 
Location: Taipei
6,776 posts, read 5,131,359 times
Reputation: 4566
Quote:
Originally Posted by willister View Post
Can they clean up in the foreseeable future?
Maybe by 22nd century they will.
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Old 12-01-2015, 12:46 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
78,904 posts, read 70,695,524 times
Reputation: 76870
Quote:
Originally Posted by willister View Post
North China is hitting near apocalyptic like levels of pollution, especially this coming Northern Hemisphere Winter, especially in cities like Shenyang.


Can China ever remove it's pollution or at least get it back to somewhat not so dangerous levels? I think it's just too many people and now with some dollars being earned, everyone there wants to live a Western lifestyle (cars, modern conveniences like heaters, air conditioners etc.)


Japan and Korea was once very polluted due to factories there but managed to clean up relatively well, but China is 10x bigger - 10 x the problems and size of the problems.


I can see the biggest issues:


- Inefficient factories.
- Coal burning stations.
- Cars.


Can they clean up in the foreseeable future?
They're not even trying. In order to clean it up, they'd have to want to do that.

But yes, if there were a will, there would be a way. Mexico City used to be as bad as some of the worse Chinese cities, and it managed to clean it up in about a decade.
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Old 12-01-2015, 03:40 PM
 
277 posts, read 205,492 times
Reputation: 178
I think the size of China's manufacturing is the number one contributor - that and its energy sources (coal)...when they switched off factories for the Olympics etc. it suddenly cleared, perhaps there is hope?


This world needs to be less materialistic.
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Old 12-01-2015, 03:58 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
78,904 posts, read 70,695,524 times
Reputation: 76870
Quote:
Originally Posted by willister View Post
I think the size of China's manufacturing is the number one contributor - that and its energy sources (coal)...when they switched off factories for the Olympics etc. it suddenly cleared, perhaps there is hope?


This world needs to be less materialistic.
Yes, there is hope. Also, they could install pollution-control devices in their factory & coal generation smokestacks, but that's expensive to do. When Taiwan went whole hog into economic development, it, too, chose to neglect the environmental effects of that. "Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!" was the attitude, and Taiwan's beautiful natural and scenic environment suffered, though nothing as bad as China's.

However, in Mexico City, when they studied the sources of the severe pollution, they found that a good percentage of it was coming from cooking fires the poor residents used to cook their food at home. Kitchens in some neighborhoods were primitive rooms or shacks with nothing but a shelf across one side (adobe construction, or cement) upon which a stovetop could be placed, or simply kindling, to cook over an open fire. Upgrading such "kitchens" helped cut down on the smoke pollution, as well as other measures.

So it's not always due to corporate greed or government cheapness; sometimes it's due to poverty.
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Old 12-01-2015, 04:08 PM
 
Location: Taipei
6,776 posts, read 5,131,359 times
Reputation: 4566
^Sadly, Taiwan is still a ****ing polluted mess nowadays, the government could not care less about the environment and people just love their scooters so much that they would ride them to anywhere more than 200 meters away.

Of course it's nowhere near the level of disgust in China, but that's barely anything to brag about.
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