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I'll chime in that yes, over the course of my adult life, I have had friends, neighbors, etc. who were Jewish, Muslim, etc. who were entirely tolerant of my lack of faith.
I did have a Lebanese Muslim boss who antagonized me over Israel, because my then-fiance was Jewish, but the other Muslims who worked there had a falling out with him over his treatment of me.
I also had a coworker who was a just-plain-screwy young woman; raised Sikh and identified as such, but believed in the Bible and Jesus and made a show of telling everyone how she went to both churches, and was also a die-hard, tearful believer in The Secret, who tried to sue me for religious discrimination because I asked her to stop trying to get me to go to church, didn't want to talk about The Secret, and declined to get into religious discussions with her. Her family were a bunch of sue-happy leeches who used a scumbag lawyer whose entire career was based on playing the race card to supplement their income... absolutely horrific human beings.
In any case... I wouldn't really care one way or the other what religion my neighbors were so long as they just left me the hell alone about my lack thereof. In my experience, as a community, Jews are highly unlikely to bother you about it or even engage you in a religious discussion in the first place. A philosophical discussion perhaps, but it's usually not delivered in a holier-than-thou fashion. Muslims tend to keep to themselves unless they live in a larger Muslim community, in which case things can get dicey - my ex was Pakistani and her family lived in a very heavily Muslim area near a mosque in the Bay Area, and though the Pakistani, Indian, Afghani, Egyptian, and Turkish folks were totally cool, many of the younger-to-middle-aged Palestinian, Lebanese, Syrian, and North African men were very aggressive and hostile towards us and very vocally opposed to Western culture... even though they had to move here to avoid getting killed and make something of themselves...
Overall, I'd just prefer not to live in a religious community if at all avoidable - the more like-minded individuals, the more group-think and the more mob mentality. Thankfully, this is a pretty easy thing to avoid.
Ignorance of the realities is never a good starting point to base your disagreements on. It just leaves one looking obtuse and silly.
Fine. I accept that I may in fact be ignorant, and that most atheists, even if they are not actively involved in overseas efforts to rid the world of delusions and religious extremism, are at least supporting such organizations. Perhaps the short-sighted America-centric forumers and bloggers who say "Muslims never knock on my door and push their views on me, so they're not as bad as Christians" are a minority.
Fine. I accept that I may in fact be ignorant, and that most atheists, even if they are not actively involved in overseas efforts to rid the world of delusions and religious extremism, are at least supporting such organizations.
There are many. Doing both. Look up and join AAI as I said. Start there and move on from there.
Also check out the international womens rights conference being hosted and run by Atheist Ireland looking at battling religious led oppression of women all over the world, especially in Islamic countries.
First things first. I am well aware that atheism is the absence of a belief in God or gods, and therefore it does not favor or disapprove of one religion more than another, and that most supernatural belief systems would be considered equally as silly. However my beef is with the atheist community itself and how it seems like most anti-religious talk is against Christianity rather than other religions.
I am well aware that there exist atheists who do work internationally who are not all obsessed with the evils of Christian fundamentalism. But I disagree with your statement that they do so "in no small numbers and with no small amount of effort". Perhaps you are right in that I am targeting atheists in historically Christian Western countries, however most agnostic atheists in the world seem to come from these areas because these are the areas that had the Enlightenment and have the highest levels of religious freedom and exposure to other world religions. Are you telling me that the general attitude of most agnostic atheists (NOT atheism, but atheists themselves) is as hostile toward non-Christian religions than toward Christianity itself?
I was just going to say, it's Christians who hate atheists more than other religions hate atheists here in America. Not much an atheist can do about that but tell them to bugger off on occasion and keep a watch on the white house so no politically active fundamentalist slide in. IMO, of course. Just as I'm sure you keep an eye out for an atheists tip toeing into the big white house.
As long as we can keep the enlightened freedoms, I'm good with Christians, as most atheists are IMO. So, I'm assuming you are a Christian, how can I make you good with me? I exist, what can I do as an atheist to make you more comfortable on this planet we share? What is it I do that makes you unhappy?
Most religious talk will probably be about Christians, for one you ask. For two you're the majority. Can't do anything about either. So anything else we do that bugs ya?
There's a definite Islamophobic streak happening with some of the more outspoken atheists like Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris. It's embarrassing and stupid, even more so than they normally are.
No, I'm not Christian. But since most atheists on the Internet are busy bashing the Bible and Jesus, I rarely find my beliefs challenged.
Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Pederman
There's a definite Islamophobic streak happening with some of the more outspoken atheists like Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris. It's embarrassing and stupid, even more so than they normally are.
What's wrong with bashing Islam? Is Christianity the only religion atheists are allowed to bash? At least there are religious moderate role models for Christians. Even the craziest Christians aren't burning witches and heretics at the stake anymore. With Islam, if you want to be religious, you have to go all the way back to the Bronze Age.
There's a definite Islamophobic streak happening with some of the more outspoken atheists like Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris. It's embarrassing and stupid, even more so than they normally are.
Odd. One of the criticisms we get is that we only attack Christianity and not the other religions.
It's the old story of 'Whatever you do is wrong, because we prefer you to be wrong.'
Nothing, so long as it's limited to the claims of Islam itself. What Dawkins et. al. are veering toward is ethnnocentrism, conflating the social problems of certain unstable states with something inherent to a particular religion or cultures in which Islam has a large role, and in effect it diminishes actual criticism of Islam.
You never hear the same people castigate modern Western or European society in the same way as particularly murderous, despite the countless deaths and human atrocities committed in the name of so-called "Christian" culture. That underlying culture still remains, having morphed into present-day late stage capitalism, which has a far higher death toll than Islam could ever hope for, yet again, no blanket assertion is made over the societies which established and maintain it.
But like I said, it's just a certain subset of outspoken public atheists, and definitely not the entire body politic of atheists, which encompasses the entire spectrum of critical thought. It's troubling in that their vehemence on the subject causes them to make strange bedfellows with grade-a imbeciles like Pamela Gellar, who embody the antithesis of rational thought.
No, I'm not Christian. But since most atheists on the Internet are busy bashing the Bible and Jesus, I rarely find my beliefs challenged.
A generalization you seem to only be capable of maintaining by entirely ignoring the existence of those who do other things... such as I have already pointed out to you many times in this thread already.
If maintaining a position involves disregarding vast swaths of the data set it is based on then perhaps it is time to realize such a dogmatically held position needs to be reconsidered.
Quote:
Originally Posted by usuario
Even the craziest Christians aren't burning witches and heretics at the stake anymore.
Not in the US anyway! No, they have modernised their methods and now they bomb abortion clinics, shoot abortion doctors or... the really charming ones.... watch their own children die of perfectly treatable diseases. Or using law to force stultifying nonsense into schools. One wonders in fact if their lack of use of fire and stakes is based less on them not being crazy and more on them no longer being able to get away with it legally or socially. I have no doubt there are many who would love to return to these ways. Certainly in countries like Nigeria where Christianity is one of the main religions we do in deed see the murder of "witches". Often child witches.
Gotta agree. It is a piece of craftiness to argue that Christianity is really nice and reasonable and the old excesses are done away with. Only because reasoned law and society forced it to be so (1). One of the dangers with a System is that, when it starts to fail, the leaders don't say that it is failing, but that it isn't being applied rigorously enough. Those leaders who resist extremism get pushed aside by the ranters who claim that they can make the 'Ism' work well and be great again, if only they are given power.
We can't allow such things to happen. We have to be aware of this and resist the loonies and left- fielders, no matter how they may promise the earth. And something with a track record as poor as religion and which is based on nothing but falsehood and deception, cannot expect any sort of deal but to be relegated to a position of impotence along with astrology, Atlantis and crystal skulls. No matter how it may try to buy its way in with free soup.
(1) and of course it is still fighting a rearguard action against gender equality. It hasn't changed, underneath.
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