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Old 08-26-2013, 09:15 AM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,609 posts, read 4,117,121 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekerSA View Post
Still curious why all the witches and vampires went to the USA.
OK, I have a theory about that.

Because we are the most powerful nation in the history of the world, we have a deep-seated fear of some other country trying to take us down. In short, we feel like we have a target on our back. We think every sinister force wants to hurt us.

These sinister forces include Nazis, Communists, creatures from outer space, vampires, gargoyles, witches - whatever you can dream up.

If you were my age, you would remember how this movie struck terror in the hearts of all Americans.




The Giant Claw movie trailer - YouTube
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Old 08-26-2013, 09:55 AM
 
Location: South Africa
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Hiker, it is interesting the stuff you post. No I cannot say I actually saw this but we did see a lot of American flicks back home on TV. Still we never developed this irrational fear you speak of.

In my school days back in the early 60s, we were doing regular fire drills and was done w/o pomp or ceremony but there is ample footage of American kids preparing for a nuclear attack (hiding under their desks or crouching next to a wall as if that would alter anything)

Bear in mind, the latter part of my youth was in a country at war and waiting for me to turn 18 so that I could be conscripted. Yet despite this real threat to life, few of us ever became paranoid even though we daily read of folk being killed by terrorists.

Perhaps this aspect was never an real issue as we did not have to deal with the threat of annihilation from a nuke war.

In a similar vein, when I was about 8-10ish, my dad took me to see the original On the Beach movie which upset me no end. You should know the storyline of a post apocalyptic war between the superpowers and the last bastion of safety, Australia finally succumbing to the effects of global radiation poisoning.

That movie probably made me a pacifist and still to this day, I would champion complete nuclear disarmament.

Thank the imaginary gods sanity prevailed and denied MacArthur the nuke option in Korea.

It really puzzles me no end, when the US were reluctant to enter either of the world wars, you lot are the only nation still waging war. The boomer generation were very anti war and one would have thought the results by now would have been one slightly different.

In my estimation, the whole crossover between politics and religion in the US has only served to keep the populace in unbridled fear of the bogeyman, the new one being the threat of muslims post 9/11. Personally my sentiments have gone from empathy to when it happened to disgust as it now stands.

I really hope that the US will come to its senses and know there is actually no nation in the world would dream of invading the US. MAD has made sure even a remote option is off the table.

The greatness we witnessed in the late 60s and early 70s has all but gone the way of the dodo bird when you were the real leaders of the free world. It is that aspect of the American people I would dearly love to see you guys recapture.
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Old 08-26-2013, 10:27 AM
 
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I read 'On the beach' as a kid and saw many a film or comic strip with a terror of the idea of a nuclear war, through Dr Strangelove to 'When the wind blows'. And I lived through the nearest we ever got to WWIII - the Cuba crisis. Nothing since has ever got us as close as that.

While I didn't go so far as pacifism and anti - nuclear campaigning, I sympathized with their aims but firmly believed that the removal of the deterrent would be a mistake. (I can still remember explaining this to a CND -pacifist and him sighing 'I can't believe I'm hearing this!')

I certainly don't believe that either side need it now (even though some kind of minor nuclear hit should be kept in view of the technology being out there) and it could be hugely scaled back.

I was struck by your reference to MacArthur. That after watching 'Patton', which ended by him raving that we would have to fight Russia so we should do it while the US Army was there, ready.

They both must have been convinced that their views were correct and they seemed damned good at the time. I am reminded of Milligan's dictum 'men like you are a waste of time in peace'.

These soldiers are great men in a rumble, but not the right ones in trying to run a peace.
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Old 08-26-2013, 10:53 AM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,609 posts, read 4,117,121 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekerSA View Post
Perhaps this aspect was never an real issue as we did not have to deal with the threat of annihilation from a nuke war.
Good for you. We deal with that threat every day. In our minds, the Japanese attack at Pearl Harbor happened last week, and the attack on 9/11 happened yesterday.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekerSA View Post
It really puzzles me no end, when the US were reluctant to enter either of the world wars, you lot are the only nation still waging war.
Watch the "Sound of Music". What is the lesson taught by that movie? If we had stopped the Germans from occupying Austria, we might have prevented WW II. That is the basis of our foreign policy today.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekerSA View Post
there is actually no nation in the world would dream of invading the US.
There are a lot of people that want to hurt us, like they did 12 years ago on 9/11.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekerSA View Post
It is that aspect of the American people I would dearly love to see you guys recapture.
Heck, if we wanted to recapture it, we would. We have the power to do whatever we want. We greatly approve of our foreign policy. That is why it has not changed from Clinton to Bush to Obama.
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Old 08-26-2013, 11:01 AM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,609 posts, read 4,117,121 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
I was struck by your reference to MacArthur. That after watching 'Patton', which ended by him raving that we would have to fight Russia so we should do it while the US Army was there, ready.

They both must have been convinced that their views were correct and they seemed damned good at the time. I am reminded of Milligan's dictum 'men like you are a waste of time in peace'.

These soldiers are great men in a rumble, but not the right ones in trying to run a peace.
Those are very good points.

That is why you never see our political leaders dressed in military uniforms, like the silly British royalty wore when Prince William and Kate got married.

Our Constitution makes it perfectly clear that our military is controlled by CIVILIANS.

See, don't you wish you had a constitution?
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Old 08-26-2013, 11:52 AM
 
Location: Northeastern US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
If you were my age, you would remember how this movie struck terror in the hearts of all Americans.
Having been born in 1957 and having grown up fundamentalist and on a somewhat restricted diet of pop culture, I'm either too young and/or too sheltered to have personally experienced the horror B movies of the 1950s -- this particular one was released the year I was born. The closest I came was Twilight Zone reruns and the like. I still can't believe that I saw William Shatner freaking out when he was the only person seeing this creature on the wing of the passenger plane, and it actually scared me. Seeing the same episode a couple of years ago, I was more inclined to laugh at the guy in the clown suit playing the creature on the wing. So I suppose it's plausible that people were actually afraid of a papier-mache bird on puppet strings in that movie ... we were probably more willing to suspend disbelief in those days.

Still, I always looked at the reservoir of fear that these films tapped into as having less to do with nationalistic insecurity (we were always too arrogant for that) as it was more generic issues. In those days we were afraid we'd get more than we'd bargained for with our "atomic" technology so everything was about radiation growing Terrible Mutant Things that ate New York (or for the Japanese, the likes of Godzilla eating Tokyo). By the 60s, nuclear dystopia was the concern and films tended to be about that. In the 70's you had movies like The Forbin Project about computers taking over or robot overlords assuming control. When AIDS came along, so did a crop of movies about uncontrollable epidemics in which people died horribly, preferably while foaming at the mouth or bleeding out of all orifices at once. More recently they've been about biological weapons or genetic experiments gone awry or about the unintended consequences of nanotechnology. I just never saw them being about the fear of the commies invading, unless it was explicit (e.g., Red Dawn, but that film succeeded precisely because it was so unthinkable to us, and thus jarring). Frankly, I grew up thinking we were pretty invincible, so at least some Americans did not share the angst you speak of.
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Old 08-26-2013, 01:54 PM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
Still, I always looked at the reservoir of fear that these films tapped into as having less to do with nationalistic insecurity (we were always too arrogant for that) as it was more generic issues.
You are totally wrong. These films were definitely a result of our nationalistic insecurity.

After 1941, we were afraid of another attack like Pearl Harbor. After WW II, we were afraid of the Commies taking over America like the Nazis took over Germany. We were very insecure.

If you are fortunate enough to see "The Giant Claw" on TV, you will see the bird represents the Soviet air force attacking us across the North Pole. Our military and our devoted civil servants work together to defeat this monster. It is a very exciting movie.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
Frankly, I grew up thinking we were pretty invincible
Since 9/11, few people now feel that way.
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Old 08-26-2013, 02:14 PM
 
Location: South Africa
5,563 posts, read 6,323,385 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
Good for you. We deal with that threat every day. In our minds, the Japanese attack at Pearl Harbor happened last week, and the attack on 9/11 happened yesterday.
And this is precisely the kind of irrationality I alluded to. Pearl Harbour was not even on Mainland USA. Glad folk like Mordant come across as more rational to affirm my faith in humanity, yes even Americans.
Quote:
Watch the "Sound of Music". What is the lesson taught by that movie? If we had stopped the Germans from occupying Austria, we might have prevented WW II. That is the basis of our foreign policy today.
The last thing I need from you is a lesson in USA history and stuff pertaining to the two world wars. This happened to be the topic of my projects in HS history projects. My countrymen of my place of birth and my adopted country both gave their lives for two distant wars so you lot are no more special than they were.
Quote:
There are a lot of people that want to hurt us, like they did 12 years ago on 9/11.
Really? Like who exactly?

Hell the majority of your own countrymen are not in favour of a Syria intervention so contrary to what you think is appropriate US foreign policy and whatever you deem justified does not seem to gel in the real world we all happen to share.
Quote:
Heck, if we wanted to recapture it, we would. We have the power to do whatever we want. We greatly approve of our foreign policy. That is why it has not changed from Clinton to Bush to Obama.
Nevermind, you are not the first person to take umbrage at criticism of the US and its policies and I have been asked many times why do I hate Americans which is about as logical a question as when are you going to stop beating your wife?

It appears that your uber patriotism blinds you from even attempting to discuss the topic of this thread and based on the first reply, you went off on a tangent at my snipe which was given in jest, later explained. You must be a real package of misery if one cannot have a conversation on something I thought would be provocative w/o too much of a religious slant and turn it into a political only argument. I really do not give two ..... concerning your internal politics which has IMO divided you as a nation making your past global leadership something you will never rekindle.

I have tried to remain polite but your obvious sheltered existence precludes adult discussion and in a way amply demonstrates my observations (of some) as not being too far off the mark.

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Old 08-26-2013, 03:52 PM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,609 posts, read 4,117,121 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
There are a lot of people that want to hurt us, like they did 12 years ago on 9/11.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekerSA View Post
Really? Like who exactly?
The same ones who attacked us 12 years ago.

Except for the ones we have killed or imprisoned.
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Old 08-26-2013, 04:32 PM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,609 posts, read 4,117,121 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
like the silly British royalty wore when Prince William and Kate got married.
I am sorry for calling the British royalty "silly".

I just found that I am a direct descendent of King Henry II of England, so I guess that makes me royalty of some kind.

From now on, you may call me "Lord Hiker".
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