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It is because we are using our consciousness to think about these things that we simply do not acknowledge that it is a unique form of energy distinct from the body that produces it. That is why atheists do not see that the specific form of energy produced must continue or be transformed into something else. Nothing we currently know about changes consciousness energy into anything else. Ergo . . . it continues.
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD
It is physics. Your body is not doing the thinking and responding on here and its unique personality and perspective has nothing to do with your body. It is pure intellect . . . a form of energy within our reality that is identifiable and interactive. It is no illusion . . . so it IS a real energy form. Only real energy forms exist within our reality.
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Originally Posted by AREQUIPA
That's a fair way of putting it, but the question really is: does it continue to exist after death when the body had diffused? The way it looks is that consciousness, like life, is linked to the corporeal body, and while the energy that animates the body has to go somewhere, what evidence is there to suggest that it continues to function when the corporeal body is dissipated? And you can save the circular 'personal experience' chat, old mate. It won't do.
No need for the personal experiences, Arq. The bold explains the dissipation issue. We know what happens to the physical components of our body and brain. But absent some mechanism to transform the accumulated energy in the form of intellect (what we experience as our "fleeting" consciousness throughout our life) . . . it is difficult to envision what causes the dissipation or diffusion . . . and into what.
I really, really do not want to have the debate again. There is nothing to indicate that consciousness energy in the form that humans and indeed animals have it exists after death any more than it exists before birth.
We know what happens to the physical components of our body and brain. But absent some mechanism to transform the accumulated energy in the form of intellect (what we experience as our "fleeting" consciousness throughout our life) . . . it is difficult to envision what causes the dissipation or diffusion . . . and into what.
At death, our bodies go from a particular organized state into a disorganized state, ultimately becoming something ghastly and unusable. So it is not at all difficult to imagine what happens to our consciousness -- it, too, loses its unique organization known as "me". That is most likely. It is possible that there is some superimposed discarnate basis for "me" that would hold "me" together, but I currently see no basis to think that, other than that (by some people's lights) it'd be nice if it were so.
Do, rather I relish in the value that the true transience of life gives to each and every one of us. I find that the concept of an eternal life cheapens the value of life into nothing.
This represents the kind of dualism I thought perpetuated only by the Judeo-Christian religious.
This represents the kind of dualism I thought perpetuated only by the Judeo-Christian religious.
Dualism is our day to day reality. We are pulled along by the arrow of time, burdened with the need for paychecks and food and other annoyances. Nondual mental experiences are interesting to explore and to speculate about how one could be everywhere and everywhen, and even everyone. But in terms of what we actually have to deal with on a daily basis, Nozz is absolutely correct; that which is in abundance is inherently cheapened. Realizing that life is a finite gift, makes it a precious one.
It is possible that there is some superimposed discarnate basis for "me" that would hold "me" together, but I currently see no basis to think that, other than that (by some people's lights) it'd be nice if it were so.
C'mon Mordant, other people's lights? What the hell does that mean?
I really, really do not want to have the debate again. There is nothing to indicate that consciousness energy in the form that humans and indeed animals have it exists after death any more than it exists before birth.
No need for debate, Arq. The difference is that before birth there was no consciousness produced. It IS produced during life and its cumulative energy has to be accounted for within the universe. It currently is not.
No need for the personal experiences, Arq. The bold explains the dissipation issue. We know what happens to the physical components of our body and brain. But absent some mechanism to transform the accumulated energy in the form of intellect (what we experience as our "fleeting" consciousness throughout our life) . . . it is difficult to envision what causes the dissipation or diffusion . . . and into what.
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Originally Posted by mordant
At death, our bodies go from a particular organized state into a disorganized state, ultimately becoming something ghastly and unusable. So it is not at all difficult to imagine what happens to our consciousness -- it, too, loses its unique organization known as "me". That is most likely. It is possible that there is some superimposed discarnate basis for "me" that would hold "me" together, but I currently see no basis to think that, other than that (by some people's lights) it'd be nice if it were so.
Perhaps my response to Arq will make it clearer, mordant.
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD
No need for debate, Arq. The difference is that before birth there was no consciousness produced. It IS produced during life and its cumulative energy has to be accounted for within the universe. It currently is not.
Currently it is just assumed that the energy manifesting as our intellect or consciousness is fleeting (even wrongly believed to be illusory) and just disappears. But we know that energy does not work like that . . . so what does happen to it?
This represents the kind of dualism I thought perpetuated only by the Judeo-Christian religious.
Since nothing in what I wrote has anything to do with dualism I am afraid you will have to clarify what you are talking about. I am merely pointing out that things become more valuable when they are rare.
No need for debate, Arq. The difference is that before birth there was no consciousness produced. It IS produced during life and its cumulative energy has to be accounted for within the universe. It currently is not.
And so the only answer is that it continues after death as a disembodies consciousness pretty much as it was in our body. yes I know the hypothesis, but hypothesis it is and is not validated except in the minds of those who want to believe in souls and gods. And there are alternatives to this idea that a continued floating intelligence is the only answer. A body dissipates after death, why not the mental 'energy' that needed the body to form it? And I hardly need point out that we have a singular lack of any sound evidence of the billions of continuing minds there ought to be floating about.
And no need for the precognition experiences. I have heard them before.
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What the hell does that mean?
