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Often wondered about that. Shouldn't death for believers be a celebration instead?
Ah It is pertinently suggested that religion is a response to fear of death (it is more than that, of course), it is a fine folly to persuade us rabbits to love the Shining Wire.
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He's losing so badly here yet he keeps coming back for more.
I would have to have an ex apologist to confirm it, but I surmise that it doesn't matter. He KNOWS it is true on Faith and that he loses the debate means nothing. What is the only important factor is that he "Keeps the Faith". If he does that, he wins - in his own view.
He's losing so badly here yet he keeps coming back for more.
Let's keep in mind though that many of us were also theists at one time. We believed simply because our parents believed. It was even an important part of our identity. We did not know how little evidentiary support there actually was for religion. So, I don't think we should be too hard on those who are still trying to figure all of this out.
Let's keep in mind though that many of us were also theists at one time. We believed simply because our parents believed. It was even an important part of our identity. We did not know how little evidentiary support there actually was for religion. So, I don't think we should be too hard on those who are still trying to figure all of this out.
I'm so thankful that my parents didn't brainwash me this way. It's really nice not to have this sort of baggage.
Let's keep in mind though that many of us were also theists at one time. We believed simply because our parents believed. It was even an important part of our identity. We did not know how little evidentiary support there actually was for religion. So, I don't think we should be too hard on those who are still trying to figure all of this out.
I am not at all hard on those who really are trying to figure it out. I am as encouraging and s helpful as I can be without being paid for it. But I don't believe that many are actually arguing with us to figure anything out - they have heard it all before, just as we have (1). Their purpose is to prove us wrong, and they have all sorts of arguments (2). Some we get time and again, and it is like a JW that came to the doorstep (or it might have been a doorstoop, who knows?) and he's got his Spiel all ready:
"Things are getting worse, aren't they?"
I then discussed the matter pointing out the fallacy of the Golden age, the resistance to change of the increasing elderly, the memories of the Nasty of my youth, and the definite signs of improvement in many fields and perhaps most.
When I had finished, he said:
"Yes, but things are getting worse, aren't they?"
(1) indeed those who really are trying to figure it out are more likely to watch silently; they are really the ones I talk to. The ones we regularly debate here are so often like talking to a brick wall with a loudspeaker attached to a tape loop.
(2) I think of them as "evangelical packages" with an opening gambit -line.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 07-07-2016 at 06:50 AM..
I'm so thankful that my parents didn't brainwash me this way. It's really nice not to have this sort of baggage.
Of course, this baggage is something that hundreds of millions of people who live in the west and all over the world have. And it doesn't just come from parents, but from centuries and millennia of people and institutions thinking this way.
The power of belief is incredibly strong, and I think that is something to be respected even by those of us who don't believe. People are right to question how atheists can be so sure about their disbelief when even the Pope and the U.S. President (all of them) are believers. Do we think we are smarter than all of them?
Of course, this baggage is something that hundreds of millions of people who live in the west and all over the world have. And it doesn't just come from parents, but from centuries and millennia of people and institutions thinking this way.
The power of belief is incredibly strong, and I think that is something to be respected even by those of us who don't believe. People are right to question how atheists can be so sure about their disbelief when even the Pope and the U.S. President (all of them) are believers. Do we think we are smarter than all of them?
A very good question. And the answer is "No" (though I think I'd take on the Pope in an intelligence test). But it is a good point. We do find outselves acting it's obvious that the Bible is rubbish and myth and nobody but an idiot could believe it. But a lot of very clever people do believe it and if it was so easy to debunk it, it would have been done long ago.
yes, I know I said it had been, long ago, but there is resistance to going with the weight of the evidence. I can see a lot of reasons why it persists even with smart people.
Faith is one reason. We have seen it online and here. Very smart people argue for religion but their brains are used to try to make a claim look feasible that really isn't. There is also a Method by which bits can be pushed through - First cause, eyewitness to the resurrection, and a few cheats - cit a few sympathetic Bible authorities; some Daewin -skeptic biologists, some Israel -related archeology, of course this rapidly slides down the smarts scale, when you start to hear quotemines or misrepresentations, but then a reluctance to check up, especially if it was what you wanted to hear anyway, can let a lot of this stuff pass.
That's why the debate is important. If we don't show up the misrepresentations, the quotes mined, the false logic, the fiddled history, the dubious aspects of the Bible, the smartest may continue not even questioning.
That why the Jeffs, Visioes and Eusebeoids are so valuable. They put the best counters religion has and if they can't make the case stand up, is there really a case? Smart people must wonder.
Of course, this baggage is something that hundreds of millions of people who live in the west and all over the world have. And it doesn't just come from parents, but from centuries and millennia of people and institutions thinking this way.
Hence the term brainwash. I can see the cultural aspects of religion, I simply reject its effects on me.
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The power of belief is incredibly strong, and I think that is something to be respected even by those of us who don't believe. People are right to question how atheists can be so sure about their disbelief when even the Pope and the U.S. President (all of them) are believers. Do we think we are smarter than all of them?
Personally I doubt the devotion of many people, and those in power most of all. That brainwashed western culture pretty much demands that our leaders be devout in the dominant religion, so we see lots of pious people in office. We certainly don't see them behaving in the way their religion demands - something I can say about lots of people - just look at the prisons.
What is eternal matter and how can it be tested? Where is this place outside of time and how can I varify its existence?
If eternal matter can always exist, what makes you believe normal matter hadn't always existed.
I don't expect you can really answer and you will dodge my questions jimmie
I'm not the one who brought up eternal matter. I merely suggested that eternal matter could be our creator.
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It is pertinently suggested that religion is a response to fear of death (it is more than that, of course), it is a fine folly to persuade us rabbits to love the Shining Wire.
yes, I know I said it had been, long ago, but there is resistance to going with the weight of the evidence. I can see a lot of reasons why it persists even with smart people. 
