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Old 09-22-2018, 09:21 PM
 
10,800 posts, read 3,590,666 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
I’m not a scientist, but I do know science can’t tell us what started the universe.
You're correct, but that doesn't mean "god dunnit".

What it means that although science knows that happened a millisecond after the Big Bang, they don't know what happened the millisecond before it.

Lots of hypothesis, on that, none which YET can be tested. That doesn't mean they won't have a test tomorrow, or next year or century.

I have my personal favorite.

I tend to believe in the concept of multiverses, and the same physics that control our universe act on a larger basis. That multiverse always existed, but is constantly evolving.

We know in our own universe that stars develop, grow, expand, explode and collapse, and then start all over again. I would like to think, but don't know, that same concept occurs in the multiverse with universes.
We know that black holes are very, very dense, so why would the gravitational force of other universes not cause even denser entities, ones that eventually expand to develop new universes. Certainly the physics of small particles hold true and are mirrored in our and other solar systems, as well as galaxies. Why would those concepts not carry forward on a multiverse basis?

Physicists differ on that hypothesis, and not all support it. But none say, we don't know, so "god dunnit". They just say, "we don't know", and that is a perfectly good answer.

Make sense?
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Old 09-22-2018, 09:23 PM
 
Location: Free State of Texas
20,438 posts, read 12,777,841 times
Reputation: 2497
Quote:
Originally Posted by 303Guy View Post
I don't see too great a mystery in the creation of the universe. I see it as the end result of a long process of the effects of time dilation and the things that go on at the quantum level of spacetime. You've heard of Hawking's virtual particle pairs? And of course, relativity.

What I do find nonsensical and perhaps even ridiculous is the notion of creation out of nothing. Makes no sense to me. God spoke the word and there everything was. Man was created out of clay (I take that to be a clay figurine) with life breathed into it. Makes no sense at all.
Seriously, the odds of life developing as it has through such a long and random process is virtually non-existent.

How do you explain the beginnng of it all without a mover of some sort?
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Old 09-22-2018, 09:25 PM
 
Location: Free State of Texas
20,438 posts, read 12,777,841 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
Nor can religion. The believers only Think it can. But what science can tel us about the universe is far more reliable than the guesses of religion.
How about an unmoved mover? Isn’t that what religion says?
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Old 09-22-2018, 09:28 PM
 
Location: Free State of Texas
20,438 posts, read 12,777,841 times
Reputation: 2497
Quote:
Originally Posted by normstad View Post
You're correct, but that doesn't mean "god dunnit".

What it means that although science knows that happened a millisecond after the Big Bang, they don't know what happened the millisecond before it.

Lots of hypothesis, on that, none which YET can be tested. That doesn't mean they won't have a test tomorrow, or next year or century.

I have my personal favorite.

I tend to believe in the concept of multiverses, and the same physics that control our universe act on a larger basis. That multiverse always existed, but is constantly evolving.

We know in our own universe that stars develop, grow, expand, explode and collapse, and then start all over again. I would like to think, but don't know, that same concept occurs in the multiverse with universes.
We know that black holes are very, very dense, so why would the gravitational force of other universes not cause even denser entities, ones that eventually expand to develop new universes. Certainly the physics of small particles hold true and are mirrored in our and other solar systems, as well as galaxies. Why would those concepts not carry forward on a multiverse basis?

Physicists differ on that hypothesis, and not all support it. But none say, we don't know, so "god dunnit". They just say, "we don't know", and that is a perfectly good answer.

Make sense?
A creator of some sort would easily answer that question, no?
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Old 09-22-2018, 09:31 PM
 
Location: Home is Where You Park It
23,856 posts, read 13,735,298 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
A creator of some sort would easily answer that question, no?
Yes, it could. But could doesn’t mean the same thing as did.
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Old 09-22-2018, 09:36 PM
 
Location: Free State of Texas
20,438 posts, read 12,777,841 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacqueg View Post
Yes, it could. But could doesn’t mean the same thing as did.
Based on what we know now, it seems the logical conclusion.
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Old 09-22-2018, 09:48 PM
 
10,800 posts, read 3,590,666 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Seriously, the odds of life developing as it has through such a long and random process is virtually non-existent.

How do you explain the beginnng of it all without a mover of some sort?
Scientists already have been able to produce RNA in a lab, the precursor protein to DNA. More so, they have been able to have that RNA replicate itself. We now know that RNA can also act as enzymes (called ribozymes) to speed chemical reactions. In a number of clinically important viruses RNA, rather than DNA, carries the viral genetic information.

RNA also plays an important role in regulating cellular processes–from cell division, differentiation and growth to cell aging and death. In other words, RNA is an integral part of life, and life cannot exist without it.

From this article:
Specifically, the researchers synthesized RNA enzymes that can replicate themselves without the help of any proteins or other cellular components, and the process proceeds indefinitely. "Immortalized" RNA, they call it, at least within the limited conditions of a laboratory.
Is it life? Nope, not yet. But it is self-replicating, which all life forms do. Scientists are on the doorstep of producing life in a petri dish.

No god needed. Sorry.
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Old 09-22-2018, 09:49 PM
 
Location: Home is Where You Park It
23,856 posts, read 13,735,298 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Based on what we know now, it seems the logical conclusion.
No, it doesn’t. Because evidence.
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Old 09-22-2018, 09:54 PM
 
Location: USA
4,747 posts, read 2,346,962 times
Reputation: 1293
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
I’m not a scientist, but I do know science can’t tell us what started the universe.
Sure it can. Quantum mechanics is the root cause of everything. You don't understand the nature of quantum mechanics though, and quantum mechanics doesn't serve to make you special. So you go right on declaring that science can’t tell us what started the universe.
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Old 09-22-2018, 10:03 PM
 
Location: Free State of Texas
20,438 posts, read 12,777,841 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacqueg View Post
No, it doesn’t. Because evidence.
What evidence?
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