Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I just don't get it. I can see how you're open minded though and have some hope. But why do people take the Bible as Fact? Where is the proof? I have asked this question many times. And I never get a pure answer. Instead I just get the run around. I don't like run arounds.
This is almost 2019... I just don't get it.
There is plenty of secular contemporaneous evidence of many Bible stories.
I am Presbyterian (in the Presbyterian Church (USA)) and do not consider the Bible to be literally true in all aspects (e.g., Noah surely didn't fit two of every single animal into an ark), but it is theologically true: God made us (through millions of years of evolution), God loves us and God sent his only son to die to redeem us. That's 100% true.
I am interested in seeing your documentation for this. Please provide whatever you can.
I don't think that I do have to document from that perspective, as I don't think that perspective is valid.
Instead, I like to look at what religion has done over the ages, including into our current time.
We have religion supporting slavery, we have religion supporting dominance of men over women, we have religion being used as a tool of cultural imperialism. Can you say that non-religion has done any of these?
Unless you can prove evidence to the contrary, I believe it's 51% which puts all the blame on the non-religious.
"Over the ages." You really don't understand the religion and politics were basically synonymous in the past?
Unless you can prove evidence to the contrary, I believe it's 51% which puts all the blame on the non-religious.
You don't understand the burden of proof, do you? One cannot assume victory by pulling a percentage out of thin air. You make the claim that 51% of subjugation and harm to minorities originates from non-religious sources, you prove that claim.
Aside from all of that, you are still dodging the core concern. Is there anything about non-religious practice that inherently leads to domination of subgroups? I would argue that there is not. On the other side, is there anything about religious practice that leads to domination of subgroups. I would argue that there is.
You will note that this has nothing to do with numbers, which is simply another red herring you are throwing into the discussion to distract from your losing position. If religion lends itself to misuse and abuse, then religion is guilty. If lack of a belief in god does the same thing, then it is also guilty.
"Over the ages." You really don't understand the religion and politics were basically synonymous in the past?[/quote]
In many places they were. Which reinforces my point. Why do you think that I would object to this linkage when it supports me and damages your stance?
You don't understand the burden of proof, do you? One cannot assume victory by pulling a percentage out of thin air. You make the claim that 51% of subjugation and harm to minorities originates from non-religious sources, you prove that claim.
Aside from all of that, you are still dodging the core concern. Is there anything about non-religious practice that inherently leads to domination of subgroups? I would argue that there is not. On the other side, is there anything about religious practice that leads to domination of subgroups. I would argue that there is.
You will note that this has nothing to do with numbers, which is simply another red herring you are throwing into the discussion to distract from your losing position. If religion lends itself to misuse and abuse, then religion is guilty. If lack of a belief in god does the same thing, then it is also guilty.
("Over the ages." You really don't understand the religion and politics were basically synonymous in the past?)
In many places they were. Which reinforces my point. Why do you think that I would object to this linkage when it supports me and damages your stance?
There is good and bad in both the religious and non-religious perspectives. It's not fair or valid to point the finger at the bad associated with religion, which has nothing to do with the religion. Especially if you are going to always give a pass to the non-religious view. I can't take atheists seriously because they always do that. Therefore I can barely make any statement here that is even serious, since nothing I'm replying to seems to be serious enough for warranting a response to begin with. I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall.
I just don't get it. I can see how you're open minded though and have some hope. But why do people take the Bible as Fact? Where is the proof? I have asked this question many times. And I never get a pure answer. Instead I just get the run around. I don't like run arounds.
This is almost 2019... I just don't get it.
98% of the population just accept what they think everyone else believes--particularly if their parents believe it too.
Also, religious beliefs seem to be protected in the brain from any logic or analysis, which is why you get nowhere pointing out even the most ludicrous theology to a Christian (or any other religious person). Why would a benevolent God need to be appeased by having ANYONE tortured to death by crucifixion, because he's mad at a mistake made by some ancient ancestor of the imperfect species he created?
You can't see how absurd religion is until you've had doubts, accumulated countless reasons that reinforce your suspicions, and realized that religion is just a societal construct with a clear evolution.
What have you done specifically for women, gays, or handicap people?
I realize you are only asking me this to shut me up while you go back to your old habit of defending religion no matter what plus I will answer your question even though you are notorious in not answering direct questions yourself,
I provided a safe place where at least 6 teenagers who had problems with prositution among other issues. A place where they were no judged but worked on confidence and valuing themselves as worthy people. Contribute to the local women's shelter, defended a gay city employee from the slurs of a conservative anti gay city alderman. I have assisted handicapped people , maybe not up to your standards but I have individually helped them, even provide one with a place to live which costed me 100 of dollars in damage. More importantly not only do I vote in every city, provincial or federal election for the candidate or party I think best supports the needy or under represented but actively promote these causes. I also spent one evening a week with my dog visiting people in palatine care trying to make their last m9nths or days a little better.
I really don't care if you think this is sufficient to speak up against some wrong doings in society. Nothing, including religion is so perfect that it cannot be criticized. No religion, country, political party, nothing. You can put religion on a pedastal I cant.
No use responding to this post, I am going to place you on my ignore list as I really don't think you have anything to contribute. I don't have to dedicate my entire life before I can speak out against some of the negatives of religion.
There is good and bad in both the religious and non-religious perspectives.
We have pointed out the bad inherent in the religious perspective. Please go ahead an point out the bad in the non-religious perspective.
Quote:
It's not fair or valid to point the finger at the bad associated with religion, which has nothing to do with the religion.
Good think we aren't doing that. We are keeping it pretty close to behaviors aided by religion.
Quote:
Especially if you are going to always give a pass to the non-religious view.
Please go ahead an illustrate how a non-religious view leads people to subjugate women, LGBT, disabled people, single mothers, people of different nationalities, or any other group.
Quote:
I can't take atheists seriously because they always do that. Therefore I can barely make any statement here that is even serious, since nothing I'm replying to seems to be serious enough for warranting a response to begin with. I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall.
I get that feeling too. You repeatedly make claims, fail to back them up, avoid direct questions, and change the subject in order to repeat the cycle. Until you actually start to discuss issues, why should anybody take you seriously?
We have pointed out the bad inherent in the religious perspective. Please go ahead an point out the bad in the non-religious perspective.
Good think we aren't doing that. We are keeping it pretty close to behaviors aided by religion.
Please go ahead an illustrate how a non-religious view leads people to subjugate women, LGBT, disabled people, single mothers, people of different nationalities, or any other group.
I get that feeling too. You repeatedly make claims, fail to back them up, avoid direct questions, and change the subject in order to repeat the cycle. Until you actually start to discuss issues, why should anybody take you seriously?
It's obviously a matter of perspective. Because it sounds like you are trying to say that all the bad things have been done by religious people as representatives of a religion, acting on some kind of religious principle. To me that's just absurd. So how can I take anything seriously from someone who thinks that way?
It is also very attractive to those extremely intelligent and truly knowledgeable enough to evaluate the possibilities for themselves and KNOW it is true.
Religiosity is inversely correlated to intelligence in every scientific study ever done. In other words, a group of people with IQs around 100 will have a much higher percentage of religious people than a group whose IQs average around 140.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
