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I suspect you are joshing, but I would ask what is there that could replace the ubiquitous invisible God as the monitor of otherwise unmonitored human action?
If you're honest, you'll admit that there have been a number of posts and threads where christians have said that all morality is based on god/the bible.
I suspect you are joshing, but I would ask what is there that could replace the ubiquitous invisible God as the monitor of otherwise unmonitored human action?
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi
If you're honest, you'll admit that there have been a number of posts and threads where christians have said that all morality is based on god/the bible.
I agree. But as ineffective and unreliable as it is, belief in God does curb the unmonitored behavior of a lot of people. My question was if belief in God was eliminated along with the elimination of religion, what societal mechanism could replace the curb on unmonitored behavior that God represents?
I agree. But as ineffective and unreliable as it is, belief in God does curb the unmonitored behavior of a lot of people. My question was if belief in God was eliminated along with the elimination of religion, what societal mechanism could replace the curb on unmonitored behavior that God represents?
Mystic you are on an atheist forum here.
I doubt any of us go around murdering people.
I've never even taken drugs apart from alcohol.
1. There's your own personal sense of right and wrong. Most people know what's right and what's wrong because wrong makes you uncomfortable. Simple. There's also the innate golden rule. In other words, empathy. Treat others as you wish to be treated.
2. If all else fails there's the law to stop you committing horrible acts
3. I don't see religion being a barrier of anything at all. The Catholic priesthood abused children for centuries. Their apparent godliness didn't seem to stop them. If anything the enforced chasisty probably exacerbated the situation.
I have no evidence for this but I'm betting if you did a study of who is in prison, it wouldn't be full of atheists. It would proportional to the rest of the populatiion: full of people from all religions.
I really don't pay attention to religion until it starts to intrude on me and society. No I'm NOT going to get used to or appreciate the Muslim call to prayer over loudspeakers. No I'm NOT going to be happy if public schools start discussing religion of any sort (teachers are not in a position to do anything like that well even if they themselves are "religious"), I don't want any special accomodations for religious ritual or whatnot anywhere non religious people exist (ie: workplace, schools, public buildings). Basically I don't want to see it or hear it ourside a church or place of worship. I'm not against the idea of religion, but when people want to LIVE their religion and subject everyone else to it, and all it's associated trappings, I'm going to push back. It needs to be kept private even if true believers think that flies in the fact of what they are being told to do in whatever texts or sermons they injest.
No, I don't even think it's possible. Religion is like the nightly news in a way. People need a framework for understanding their lives. Most people, and I include myself in this group, don't have the time and energy to research and experiment to figure out what's what. So we rely on trusted authorities to tell us what's what.
It would be inefficient to have everyone repeating the same experiments, physical and thought, to figure out how the world works. We can save a lot of time and energy if we delegate epistemology to trusted authorities, who then report their findings back to us.
This can obviously be abused, and has been for most of the time and for most of the people.
I think the proper project for atheists, if there is such a thing, is devising institutional arrangements to mitigate the abuse of those entrusted with "reality parsing".
But getting rid of religion? Impossible and inefficient.
Mystic you are on an atheist forum here.
I doubt any of us go around murdering people.
I've never even taken drugs apart from alcohol.
1. There's your own personal sense of right and wrong. Most people know what's right and what's wrong because wrong makes you uncomfortable. Simple. There's also the innate golden rule. In other words, empathy. Treat others as you wish to be treated.
2. If all else fails there's the law to stop you committing horrible acts
3. I don't see religion being a barrier of anything at all. The Catholic priesthood abused children for centuries. Their apparent godliness didn't seem to stop them. If anything the enforced chasisty probably exacerbated the situation.
I have no evidence for this but I'm betting if you did a study of who is in prison, it wouldn't be full of atheists. It would proportional to the rest of the population: full of people from all religions.
I don't disagree with you, Cruithne. I have no statistics to back up my intuition, but I suspect the vast majority of those who are already atheists (and NOT criminals) are within the upper half of the normal distribution and comprised of normal, intelligent, decent, rational, law-abiding people. I suspect that the majority of those who are not atheists in the lower half of the distribution (and are NOT criminals) are religious and it plays a significant role in constraining their behaviors. It is those I was referring to.
I really don't pay attention to religion until it starts to intrude on me and society. No I'm NOT going to get used to or appreciate the Muslim call to prayer over loudspeakers. No I'm NOT going to be happy if public schools start discussing religion of any sort (teachers are not in a position to do anything like that well even if they themselves are "religious"), I don't want any special accomodations for religious ritual or whatnot anywhere non religious people exist (ie: workplace, schools, public buildings). Basically I don't want to see it or hear it ourside a church or place of worship.I'm not against the idea of religion, but when people want to LIVE their religion and subject everyone else to it, and all it's associated trappings, I'm going to push back.It needs to be kept private even if true believers think that flies in the fact of what they are being told to do in whatever texts or sermons they injest.
bold above
sort of like telling gay people it's Ok to be gay as long as you yourself "don't have to see or hear them at all in public" "it's ok to be gay just keep it private" "it's OK to be gay just act straight in public"
sounds like that's what the post above is saying. so you don't ever have to see it. or hear it.
I agree. But as ineffective and unreliable as it is, belief in God does curb the unmonitored behavior of a lot of people. My question was if belief in God was eliminated along with the elimination of religion, what societal mechanism could replace the curb on unmonitored behavior that God represents?
What is wrong with fundamentalism??? It is just a requirement that the Scriptures be taken literally.
9/11 and the Berlin Christmas Market attack is what is wrong with fundamentalism. Creationism is what is wrong with fundamentalism. Killing people because your god must have made them gay is what is wrong with fundamentalism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troubleshooter
Those who hate fundamentalism want scriptures to not be literal so they can disobey them.
So you do not eat bacon and have given all your money away? It is in your scripture.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troubleshooter
Note that some people (especially Muslim) say they are fundamentalist when they are actually disobeying the religion or obeying just a small part.
So you have stopped eating bacon, and you have given all your money away.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troubleshooter
Science and religion do not contradict each other, ...
I agree. But as ineffective and unreliable as it is, belief in God does curb the unmonitored behavior of a lot of people. My question was if belief in God was eliminated along with the elimination of religion, what societal mechanism could replace the curb on unmonitored behavior that God represents?
Our evolved sense of morality and logic based on why we are moral creatures, or punishment.
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