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Cougar, I think if you sat down with the other atheist you would see we have a lot similar ideas, values, and goals. Our problem is we just don’t want to be the first target of the not so intelligent religious right, and in many cases we just don’t trust a lot of people.
I'm actually friends with several other atheists, and I can tell you we are all very different; there's no way we could all vote for the same things. My atheist friends range from a hardcore liberal to a Green Party vegan to a really conservative traditional family. I understand you think it could be done, but from what I observe, the one common denominator wouldn't nearly be enough.
I'm actually friends with several other atheists, and I can tell you we are all very different; there's no way we could all vote for the same things. My atheist friends range from a hardcore liberal to a Green Party vegan to a really conservative traditional family. I understand you think it could be done, but from what I observe, the one common denominator wouldn't nearly be enough.
They are not so far apart. The hard core liberals are in most cases environmentalist, and support equal rights for all, Green Party Vegan also environmentalist, and other than no cheese I can agree with a lot they do, the conservative families are just like me looking to better education, and a better life for their children. I have something in common with each one other than my views on religion.
We also seem to have similar religious views, and in reality I suspect we have the same feeling toward organizations, but in my view, the path to return our government to a true secular state isn’t the path of least resistance. We have to come out of our comfort zone and speak as a group.
The values I find I have in common with the atheist I meet with are
-concerns over education: And what is the "atheist" approach to educational concerns? Both parties seem to be of the mind that throwing more money and regulation at schools will fix education. Are atheists, by the nature of their atheism, different than this?
-equal rights regardless of sex, race, nationality, sexual preference, or religion: Hard question here: Name a right that atheists don't have. A genuine right, not "freedom from" or a "not be offended by", but something that religious people cannot do, that if an atheist does it he goes to jail by fact that he is an atheist.
-abuse of our environment: Do atheists in general support a market-based approach to the environment, or a governmental regulation approach?
-wars which continue to ravage humanity: Do atheists believe that the wars the US has engaged should be ended? Do atheists believe that intervention in other words should be ended? Are atheists isolationists?
-starvation and genocide from in the 3rd world: What is the general atheist solution to these problems and is it any different than theist solutions?
-freedom to speak out when we see these atrocities: Has any atheist lost this freedom any more than anyone else?
-danger of not addressing the shift in our secular government to a christian government: Do atheists think this shift is more important than the shift to totalitarianism? Or the shift towards a police state?
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You might find some of these concerns in the main stream parties, but have grown to think they are just all talk and no action.
The last footnote to remember is Atheist make up at least 16% of the population in the US and we have only one congressman who is a proclaimed Atheist.
Of course they are all talk and no action. They are politicians.
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You have no one to protect your right to be non religious.
I have me. That's a pretty good start. I personally think that trusting politicians with your rights is akin to trusting a random group of teenagers with your bottle of Jack and the keys to the Ferrari.
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It sounds like you think that is OK, but in my view it is a dangerous path to trust those who never hear from any other than the religious.
Agreed. I don't trust those in power regardless who they listen to. They cannot be trusted because they are in power, and because the deem themselves worth of authority over other humans. That, alone, is reason enough to distrust them.
We are supposed to be a secular government, but from the 1950 we have had a steady push from the Christian right to shift freedom of religion to equal freedom to accept their religion. Look at your money, scattered laws that restrict Atheist from taking public office, or sitting on a Jury, the addition of “In God” on government documents, and oaths. The list never ends, and that is not part of a true secular government.
Which was pretty much my point, only in less words. We shouldn't need a secular party because we're already supposed to be secular in the first place.
Of course they are all talk and no action. They are politicians.
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It sounds like you want no government, and the point of political leaders not taking action is the fought of the voter for not speaking up. The words we need are “TERM LIMITS”
The “I have me” statement is a start, but your voice would die out in a weak wind when put against the voices of the Southern Baptist or the RCC. Strength is in numbers, not standing alone.
Trusting politicians sadly is part of the process and will require us being active in our political process. The one thing I can trust is if we don’t make a noise they will ignore us, and we will continue to be the least respected segment of society.
There is no worry about the Ferrari, I can’t afford one, and not sure this old body could bend to fit in one.
and the point of political leaders not taking action is the fought of the voter for not speaking up.
The danger of this, of course, is that the voters *did* speak up. They just don't like us. So this idea that voting justifies the actions politicians take is very dangerous, because it gives them justification to act against you.
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The words we need are “TERM LIMITS”
We have Presidential term limits, and yet we get crappier and crappier Presidents every turnover.
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The “I have me” statement is a start, but your voice would die out in a weak wind when put against the voices of the Southern Baptist or the RCC. Strength is in numbers, not standing alone.
There are many different kinds of strength. Numbers is only one, and while it is an obvious strength, it also large, clumsy, difficult to build, and even more difficult to manage. Fifteen percent of the population is not a numbers strength. If you rely on any numbers-based strength to protect yourself as an atheist, you will lose. In the art of war, don't fight on your enemy's battlefield. They have the vote and the political parties locked up. Fight them there, you lose.
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Trusting politicians sadly is part of the process and will require us being active in our political process.
If you believe that they have already won, both the theists and the politicians. They are one and the same.
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The one thing I can trust is if we don’t make a noise they will ignore us, and we will continue to be the least respected segment of society.
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Agreed. But begging politicians for my rights isn't the kind of noise I prefer to make.
Well Scarmig, go rattle your swords, and I will work the system the best way I can. It seems we are working toward the same goals, and sort of in the same direction. I think with luck one of us will reach the other in time and it may be better to approach the issues from two directions.
I would be the last to say only one path will take us to a satisfactory conclusion to the list of issues we have discussed, and regardless of how I view the efficiency of your method I am still glad to hear the rumbling from another non religious person in the distance.
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