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One of the things that most annoys me about our government, regardless of the political party we most align ourselves with, is the overwhelming inundation of special-interest lobbyists. The main problem is that anyone, including foreign governments, can pay money to hire lawyers to speak with Congressman and "change their minds" on any variety of issues.
One key example is the recent finding that the Afghanistan government hired a special-interest lobby group to push for more troops, more money, and more time for the U.S military to stay in Afghanistan. Whether you agree with the war in Afghanistan or not, we should all be asking ourselves why our government leaders are being manipulated by third party groups (at home or from abroad) to make decisions they otherwise wouldn't make in regards to situations like Iraq and Afghanistan.
Let's take another situation, such as health care. Now, I'm all for health care reform and I think it's a wonderful endeavor we as a country should set out to strive for. But, guess who one of the main proponents in charge of health care reform is? Sen. Christopher Dodd. That's fine - except for the fact that he received the highest amount of contributions from... You guessed... The health insurance industry. Now, couple that with the fact that his wife, Jackie Clegg Dodd, sits on the board of several major health/pharmaceutical companies such as Javelin Pharmaceuticals, Cardiome Pharma, and Brookdale Senior Living.
Shouldn't we ask ourselves this question:
If we are seeking to reform health care in order to pull the full-court press of the insurance and pharmaceutical companies out of our lives, what is a guy whose wife that sits on the board of several of those companies, and a guy whose received major contributions from the insurance industry going to do to benefit you and me in regards to health care?
Would we really expect anyone in that position to act in our best interests rather than his best interests? To me, it would seem to be of the President's best interests, in order to pass health care reform that truly benefits us, to "call out" people such as this with heavy ties to the industries and operations we are trying to change.
So, what does this have to do with Atheism as a political force? What I've been trying to show is that it does not necessarily require a political party entitled "The Atheist Party" to make or change things in Washington. Personally, I think that even if what I feel is the skewed number of 15% of the American population is indeed comprised of Atheists, you'll have a hard time getting even 15% of those to become affiliated with the party. Not only that, but I don't see any other people from the religious side jumping ship to join in on the ride.
For years and years, the Christian groups of America have lobbied Congress for a plethora of things. As a most recent example, Louisiana's Governor Bobby Jindal, decided it would be OK to teach Creationism and Evolution side-by-side in the classroom. Naturally, because he's a schizo, born-again nut job, it didn't take much pressure from the Discovery Institute - who has their own lobbyists - to push for such a bill to be passed in his own home state. Keep in mind, the reason the Discovery Institute can do this is because they have enormous contributions from other schizo, born-again nutjobs promoting the cause of teaching religious masturbation fantasies in school. But, there is a certain method to this madness, so let's think about the possibilities of why a place like the Discovery Institute would push for such a thing.
I personally don't see a group of disbanded and outcast scientists who prefer to "Lie for Jesus" as having any motive to bring people to the Christian faith outside of one that exists monetarily. Imagine if states began teaching Creationism? Who would supply all of the textbooks to teach the subject? Think of the enormous amount of monetary surplus this would bring to this crackpot and fraudulent organization!
So, really what any and all of our reform bills, war bills, education bills, health bills, etc... boils down to in Washington is the special-interest and lobby groups. They take Congressman and Senators who, by and large, may very well have some wonderful ideas and they convince them that "This, that, and the other thing," are necessary elements that needed to be provided in the next bill. Then, the Congressman or Senator, at the last second, throws in a stipulation of providing free pubic hair braiding for all citizens of his state, a day before the bill is to be presented and passed. Naturally, because the bill is 1400 pages long, no one has the time to read it so the initial premise of what the bill is for gets passed (along with a plethora of other things).
In many cases, this can be beneficial for some and a budgetary disaster for the State and Federal governments.
If Atheists really want to reform something, really want to get a separation of Church and State, or even potential politicians for "down the road" under their belt, they need strong lobby groups to press Congress at every single turn. This is what made the unions strong, this is what makes Christian demagoguery and theocracy so strong and prevalent in our government and this is why we ask ourselves why we are so "overstretched" throughout the world.
The only thing is that it takes money to pay for the lawyers to lobby. This means that organizations like The Freedom From Religion Foundation, The Secular Coalition of America, etc... need donations and funding to lobby Congress. The more money and influence one can put into the hands of corrupt government officials under the pretense of "donations and contributions," the more one can better get their reform.
I don't think an Atheist Party will do a damn thing other than waste time or money. If you truly want action, hire a special interest group that will lobby for the cause. Take the alleged 15% of Americans who are Atheists and try to rally them to donate money to the lobby organizations. They may not win the first or second or third try, but the more money that begins to float around out there, the better chances you have of getting a bill passed in favor of whatever cause you're promoting.
Until we get leaders who are not afraid to chastise and criticize members of their own party for affiliating themselves with special-interest lobbyists, this methodology will never change in Washington and it's your best bet for any sort of political action.
One of the things that most annoys me about our government, regardless of the political party we most align ourselves with, is the overwhelming inundation of special-interest lobbyists. The main problem is that anyone, including foreign governments, can pay money to hire lawyers to speak with Congressman and "change their minds" on any variety of issues.
One key example is the recent finding that the Afghanistan government hired a special-interest lobby group to push for more troops, more money, and more time for the U.S military to stay in Afghanistan. Whether you agree with the war in Afghanistan or not, we should all be asking ourselves why our government leaders are being manipulated by third party groups (at home or from abroad) to make decisions they otherwise wouldn't make in regards to situations like Iraq and Afghanistan.
Let's take another situation, such as health care. Now, I'm all for health care reform and I think it's a wonderful endeavor we as a country should set out to strive for. But, guess who one of the main proponents in charge of health care reform is? Sen. Christopher Dodd. That's fine - except for the fact that he received the highest amount of contributions from... You guessed... The health insurance industry. Now, couple that with the fact that his wife, Jackie Clegg Dodd, sits on the board of several major health/pharmaceutical companies such as Javelin Pharmaceuticals, Cardiome Pharma, and Brookdale Senior Living.
Shouldn't we ask ourselves this question:
If we are seeking to reform health care in order to pull the full-court press of the insurance and pharmaceutical companies out of our lives, what is a guy whose wife that sits on the board of several of those companies, and a guy whose received major contributions from the insurance industry going to do to benefit you and me in regards to health care?
Would we really expect anyone in that position to act in our best interests rather than his best interests? To me, it would seem to be of the President's best interests, in order to pass health care reform that truly benefits us, to "call out" people such as this with heavy ties to the industries and operations we are trying to change.
So, what does this have to do with Atheism as a political force? What I've been trying to show is that it does not necessarily require a political party entitled "The Atheist Party" to make or change things in Washington. Personally, I think that even if what I feel is the skewed number of 15% of the American population is indeed comprised of Atheists, you'll have a hard time getting even 15% of those to become affiliated with the party. Not only that, but I don't see any other people from the religious side jumping ship to join in on the ride.
For years and years, the Christian groups of America have lobbied Congress for a plethora of things. As a most recent example, Louisiana's Governor Bobby Jindal, decided it would be OK to teach Creationism and Evolution side-by-side in the classroom. Naturally, because he's a schizo, born-again nut job, it didn't take much pressure from the Discovery Institute - who has their own lobbyists - to push for such a bill to be passed in his own home state. Keep in mind, the reason the Discovery Institute can do this is because they have enormous contributions from other schizo, born-again nutjobs promoting the cause of teaching religious masturbation fantasies in school. But, there is a certain method to this madness, so let's think about the possibilities of why a place like the Discovery Institute would push for such a thing.
I personally don't see a group of disbanded and outcast scientists who prefer to "Lie for Jesus" as having any motive to bring people to the Christian faith outside of one that exists monetarily. Imagine if states began teaching Creationism? Who would supply all of the textbooks to teach the subject? Think of the enormous amount of monetary surplus this would bring to this crackpot and fraudulent organization!
So, really what any and all of our reform bills, war bills, education bills, health bills, etc... boils down to in Washington is the special-interest and lobby groups. They take Congressman and Senators who, by and large, may very well have some wonderful ideas and they convince them that "This, that, and the other thing," are necessary elements that needed to be provided in the next bill. Then, the Congressman or Senator, at the last second, throws in a stipulation of providing free pubic hair braiding for all citizens of his state, a day before the bill is to be presented and passed. Naturally, because the bill is 1400 pages long, no one has the time to read it so the initial premise of what the bill is for gets passed (along with a plethora of other things).
In many cases, this can be beneficial for some and a budgetary disaster for the State and Federal governments.
If Atheists really want to reform something, really want to get a separation of Church and State, or even potential politicians for "down the road" under their belt, they need strong lobby groups to press Congress at every single turn. This is what made the unions strong, this is what makes Christian demagoguery and theocracy so strong and prevalent in our government and this is why we ask ourselves why we are so "overstretched" throughout the world.
The only thing is that it takes money to pay for the lawyers to lobby. This means that organizations like The Freedom From Religion Foundation, The Secular Coalition of America, etc... need donations and funding to lobby Congress. The more money and influence one can put into the hands of corrupt government officials under the pretense of "donations and contributions," the more one can better get their reform.
I don't think an Atheist Party will do a damn thing other than waste time or money. If you truly want action, hire a special interest group that will lobby for the cause. Take the alleged 15% of Americans who are Atheists and try to rally them to donate money to the lobby organizations. They may not win the first or second or third try, but the more money that begins to float around out there, the better chances you have of getting a bill passed in favor of whatever cause you're promoting.
Until we get leaders who are not afraid to chastise and criticize members of their own party for affiliating themselves with special-interest lobbyists, this methodology will never change in Washington and it's your best bet for any sort of political action.
You hit the nail on the head related to lobbies, and the power of our larger corporations. I think one thing that could help in this issue are term limits for congress just like the Executive Office. This process of gaining power over decades always reminds me of the saying “Power corrupts and absolute power corrupting absolutely”. Congress is a fine example of how true the statement is, and their convoluted paths into the corporate board rooms are without question a conflict of interest.
I think we all recognize the chance of an Atheist Party is slim as any third party in the last 80 years, but the attempt to form one would awaken the existing parties to the fact we are out here and vote. A block of 15% of any similar thinking voters is something no congressman would ignore. If he did he would no longer be a congressman.
A block of 15% of any similar thinking voters is something no congressman would ignore. If he did he would no longer be a congressman.
But that's the whole problem with this idea. Just because we have one thing in common, doesn't mean we have anything else in common. It's a pretty idea, but fairly useless with only one single factor as the basis for an entire party. It would be quite as ridiculous as forming the "I Don't Believe In Santa" Political Party.
But that's the whole problem with this idea. Just because we have one thing in common, doesn't mean we have anything else in common. It's a pretty idea, but fairly useless with only one single factor as the basis for an entire party. It would be quite as ridiculous as forming the "I Don't Believe In Santa" Political Party.
Cougar, I think if you sat down with the other atheist you would see we have a lot similar ideas, values, and goals. Our problem is we just don’t want to be the first target of the not so intelligent religious right, and in many cases we just don’t trust a lot of people. I keep hearing people saying getting atheist together is like herding cats, but I think if we want to keep our rights to "not" believe than it is time to forget the cats and group together in packs. We have the numbers, and regardless of how you feel, our values are close. The advantage we have together is our voice is much stronger.
I personally have joined several local and National Atheist organizations, and through them can see the collective value of their members working together to protect the basic right to believe or not to believe. I think it is the right path for me, and as much as I dislike being part of a group, I see the need to join such groups far out weighs my discomfort of being one individual among the many.
Pardon me for thinking out loud but the idea of a secular party seems absurd because we're supposed to already have a secular government in the first confounded place.
Pardon me for thinking out loud but the idea of a secular party seems absurd because we're supposed to already have a secular government in the first confounded place.
We are supposed to be a secular government, but from the 1950 we have had a steady push from the Christian right to shift freedom of religion to equal freedom to accept their religion. Look at your money, scattered laws that restrict Atheist from taking public office, or sitting on a Jury, the addition of “In God” on government documents, and oaths. The list never ends, and that is not part of a true secular government.
Name some of these ideas, values, and goals in a political context. Maybe even start a poll for the big ones and see how much agreement there is.
The values I find I have in common with the atheist I meet with are concerns over education, equal rights regardless of sex, race, nationality, sexual preference, or religion. They have concerns over the abuse of our environment and the wars which continue to ravage humanity, the starvation and genocide from in the 3rd world, and freedom to speak out when we see these atrocities. I also find a collection of people who recognize the danger of not addressing the shift in our secular government to a christian government.
You might find some of these concerns in the main stream parties, but I have grown to think they are just all talk and no action.
The last footnote to remember is Atheist make up at least 16% of the population in the US and we have only one congressman who is a proclaimed Atheist. You have no one to protect your right to be non religious. It sounds like you think that is OK, but in my view it is a dangerous path to trust those who never hear from any other than the religious.
Last edited by cncracer; 08-03-2009 at 09:55 AM..
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