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I'd go as far as saying they really aren't Urban Dwellers. Many probably grew up in the burbs and now that cities across the country are "cool and hip" they feel they have arived because they can walk to coffe shops.
They're not urban dwellers. What they want is a suburban area within the city. I've lived inside of cites my entire life--from Detroit to Chicago, when you're a UD, you deal with everything that comes with living in the city.
The wanna-be UD is looking for Trader Joe's and cutesy little coffe shops. They think that's what makes them "city people", but as soon as the see someone the doesn't "look like they belong" they get paranoid. Oh and don't forget the expensive bicycles and training for the 5k run
Come visit the Dallas page and you will see the same antagonistic snobbery toward suburbanites followed by fear mongering replies about crime and schools in the city.
One thing I haven't seen mentioned is that a majority of the jobs are from the perimeter outward now in both cities. Suburban office complexes and headquarters are similar in both Atlanta and Dallas. It is not all suburbanites driving downtown anymore. I would say a lot of the people living in the tony areas of North Fulton, East Cobb and North Gwinnett are not driving ITP. Same here in my neck of the woods in the North Dallas Burbs.
When I first moved to Atlanta in 1996, I lived in various suburbs from Smyrna to Norcross to Lawrenceville. I didn't really know that much about the city, except I drove downtown every day to work. I had no experience living in an urban area, because I grew up in suburbs, so that was my confort zone. Also remember that back in the late 90s, midtown wasn't nearly as liveable as it is now and Buckhead was still really expensive. I was also just starting out and made very little money. But recall that Metropolis hadn't even been built yet, so most of midtown wasn't even what you would really call walkable yet. At least I don't think, I didn't live there....but I did work in a place with a bunch of hipsters at the time, and none of them lived in midtown yet (they all lived in places like L5P, Inman Park, and VaHi).
Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that in 2001, a friend convinced me to move to Buckhead. It was an adjustment, I had to go from a 2 bedroom apartment down to a 1 bedroom and I had to make some other necessary chages. But it was also a lot of fun. The important thing is, I made a promise to myself that even though I was moving "ITP," I was never going to become one of those people who absolutely refused to ever venture "OTP." I had spent 5 years OTP, so even though I was having a blast exploring everything that Buckhead and midtown had to offer, I still remembered that OTP had a lot to offer as well and found myself venturing out periodically whether it be to visit a friend, go to a store, or just see a movie without people talking on their cell phones the entire time. And yeah, sometimes I would even get a craving for a dreaded "chain restaurant" and I'd have to drive a bit to visit a freaking Fuddruckers or Provino's. The point is, even though I changed my status, I vowed to never become one of those narrow minded people who are either afraid or think they're too good to go to a suburb.
A couple of years ago, I decided it was time to actually purchase a home and stop living in a 1 bedroom place. I felt like I had outgrown the lifestyle. On my budget, I could have afforded a 1 bedroom condo in a part of town I would like, and a bigger place or house in a part of town I didn't like. I considered places like East Atlanta, but in the end decided I'm not an urban pioneer. It needs to already be gentrified before I move in....so unless the gays have already been there, I'm probably not going
So I moved back to the suburbs. Again, it was an adjustment. But I made the same promise to myself: just because I'm once again "OTP," I'm not going to become one of those people who says it's too far or too much of a hassle to go into town if there's something I want to do there. That's what this entire rambling message is trying to say. We all choose to live where we do, but that doesn't mean that we have to close our eyes to other areas or think we are somehow superior to them. If you live in a city this large and are anywhere close to an interesting person, you will often find that there are things you want to do and experience that aren't available in your own backyard wherever you have chosen to make that.
Yeah, I live in the suburbs now. I go to strip malls and eat at Outback. I walk around my neighborhood at 3 in the morning without worrying about anything. But do you know what else I love to do? Take in a great punk or rock show at the Earl. Spend an evening with Blondie at the Clermont. I'll even go to Piedmont Park if I feel I want a change of scenery from the parks close to me. We all live in the same metro area and it all belongs to all of us to enjoy.
But Decatur is still for hippies and lesbians. Just kidding, I actually love the Brickstore!
Wow, I did not know the ITP vs. OTP thing was so controversial on this forum!
I asked my wife(who is a realtor) what she thought she would list our house for(To sell in a reasonable amount of time. I bought the house years ago, rented it, but did not move in until the last year because of renovations), and then looked up comparable listings in the suburbs. Well I found a couple homes in our price range in the Country Club of the South neighborhood. They were listed from 439 days to 1888 days, yes 1888 days(guess they are really overpriced!). The houses had more bedrooms, bathrooms, rooms, and garages. But our house for the price and location has five bedrooms, 4.5 baths, 5 fireplaces, pool, 2 car detached garage, library/study, living room, dining room, large kitchen, media room, and exercise room. My house is definitely less grand/flashy exterior(inside though we have higher quality finishes), so I could see easily why somebody not familiar with the Atlanta area would choose a grand home in the suburbs. I will admit the guarded gates is a great feature. Basically I would say closer in homes are more about QUALITY, and suburban/far out are about QUANTITY.
People keep saying the city is unsafe! I have never felt unsafe driving around Atlanta at night. Even down in College Park which people always say is so "hood". One of our sons goes to school down there, and I do not think it is dangerous. We do take precautions though we keep mace in our cars, always keep our security system on even when we are home, and we have cameras on our house. We would even do that if we lived in CCOS, River Club, Sugarloaf, etc!
People think since MARTA does not go out to the suburbs there is going to be less crime. I doubt most people who commit major crimes in the suburbs will ride on the MARTA to get to houses they might burglarize! I do not think an extra twenty minute drive is going to stop a burglar. I will say the gates probably help a lot since it would make it so much harder for a criminal to case the house. (A blog said on the internet that there were electrified fences around CCOS, but I have no clue if that is true.)
Also not everybody in the city is liberal, my wife and I are both conservative(Herman Cain 2012!) and fit right in.
I asked my friend who lives in River Club why they decided to live there vs. the city. They said the realtor recommended Duluth, Suwanee, Alpharetta, & Johns Creek.(He regrets not living closer in because of I-85) Now my friend who lives in CCOS; their children go to the school our son goes to in College Park. They picked CCOS because they liked the security and thought it was easier to make friends in a subdivision vs. city neighborhood.
Oh and by the way I grew up in NYC on the UES so I know what it is like in another city. I will definitely say the Atlanta suburban communities are much better planned than the DC metro suburban communities. I really believe most people in the Atlanta metro take pride in their homes(ITP & OTP).
I never said anything was wrong with wanting to walk to the places. You'll have to read the post i responded to and than read my and put it together for yourself. I'm not going to type it all out for you.
the OP was talking about people that have this elite attitude because they live in the city and therefore i responded with my post. i was saying people that act that way are not city dweelers and than I go into detail...
Sorry Ron, I may have jumped the gun a little bit on that one...
When I first moved to Atlanta in 1996, I lived in various suburbs from Smyrna to Norcross to Lawrenceville. I didn't really know that much about the city, except I drove downtown every day to work. I had no experience living in an urban area, because I grew up in suburbs, so that was my confort zone. Also remember that back in the late 90s, midtown wasn't nearly as liveable as it is now and Buckhead was still really expensive. I was also just starting out and made very little money. But recall that Metropolis hadn't even been built yet, so most of midtown wasn't even what you would really call walkable yet. At least I don't think, I didn't live there....but I did work in a place with a bunch of hipsters at the time, and none of them lived in midtown yet (they all lived in places like L5P, Inman Park, and VaHi).
Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that in 2001, a friend convinced me to move to Buckhead. It was an adjustment, I had to go from a 2 bedroom apartment down to a 1 bedroom and I had to make some other necessary chages. But it was also a lot of fun. The important thing is, I made a promise to myself that even though I was moving "ITP," I was never going to become one of those people who absolutely refused to ever venture "OTP." I had spent 5 years OTP, so even though I was having a blast exploring everything that Buckhead and midtown had to offer, I still remembered that OTP had a lot to offer as well and found myself venturing out periodically whether it be to visit a friend, go to a store, or just see a movie without people talking on their cell phones the entire time. And yeah, sometimes I would even get a craving for a dreaded "chain restaurant" and I'd have to drive a bit to visit a freaking Fuddruckers or Provino's. The point is, even though I changed my status, I vowed to never become one of those narrow minded people who are either afraid or think they're too good to go to a suburb.
A couple of years ago, I decided it was time to actually purchase a home and stop living in a 1 bedroom place. I felt like I had outgrown the lifestyle. On my budget, I could have afforded a 1 bedroom condo in a part of town I would like, and a bigger place or house in a part of town I didn't like. I considered places like East Atlanta, but in the end decided I'm not an urban pioneer. It needs to already be gentrified before I move in....so unless the gays have already been there, I'm probably not going
So I moved back to the suburbs. Again, it was an adjustment. But I made the same promise to myself: just because I'm once again "OTP," I'm not going to become one of those people who says it's too far or too much of a hassle to go into town if there's something I want to do there. That's what this entire rambling message is trying to say. We all choose to live where we do, but that doesn't mean that we have to close our eyes to other areas or think we are somehow superior to them. If you live in a city this large and are anywhere close to an interesting person, you will often find that there are things you want to do and experience that aren't available in your own backyard wherever you have chosen to make that.
Yeah, I live in the suburbs now. I go to strip malls and eat at Outback. I walk around my neighborhood at 3 in the morning without worrying about anything. But do you know what else I love to do? Take in a great punk or rock show at the Earl. Spend an evening with Blondie at the Clermont. I'll even go to Piedmont Park if I feel I want a change of scenery from the parks close to me. We all live in the same metro area and it all belongs to all of us to enjoy.
But Decatur is still for hippies and lesbians. Just kidding, I actually love the Brickstore!
Well said ATLTJL, I think that is a good outlook to have. I do occasionally venture OTP as well to get a break from the city. And you're totally right about Decatur, all hippies and lesbians - lol j/k.
Why do people buy very expensive homes out in the suburbs and have long commutes into the city for work?
I just do not get why people buy 2 million dollar houses out in places like Sugarloaf, CCOS, River Club, etc., and yet they have to commute in the city every day!
Maybe they can't afford a 2 million dollar house in Buckhead.
People keep saying the city is unsafe! I have never felt unsafe driving around Atlanta at night. Even down in College Park which people always say is so "hood". One of our sons goes to school down there, and I do not think it is dangerous. We do take precautions though we keep mace in our cars, always keep our security system on even when we are home, and we have cameras on our house. We would even do that if we lived in CCOS, River Club, Sugarloaf, etc!
People think since MARTA does not go out to the suburbs there is going to be less crime. I doubt most people who commit major crimes in the suburbs will ride on the MARTA to get to houses they might burglarize! I do not think an extra twenty minute drive is going to stop a burglar.
These points could both have threads of their own, but I just wanted to comment on them both very quickly here.
I don't think feeling safe driving around an area at night is a very good barometer of safety. I mean, a place would have to be absolutely horribly unsafe for someone to not feel safe locked in a car. I think the real barometer of safety is do you feel safe WALKING around at night? That can be anywhere. For example, the neighborhood I lived in Buckhead, I walked around my neighborhood park at night all the time and never felt unsafe. And I mean the MIDDLE of the night, like 2, 3am. Where I live now in the suburbs I do the same thing all the time and it's never been an issue. Being able to walk safely at night is not only a good measure of safety, but also important to anybody who has a dog. I walk mine at all hours.
Regarding MARTA, this is a controversial subject. I agree that MARTA isn't going to bring major theft to an area. However, I remember when I used to shop at the Brookhaven Kroger, I was shocked to be panhandled for money when walking in. I talked to the manager about it and I said this is a very wealthy area, what gives with the panhandling? He just silently pointed across the street to the Brookhaven MARTA station. Then he said, "they come from there." So even though MARTA may not bring major crime, it's impossible to argue that it doesn't bring annoyances, characters that wouldn't otherwise be in the area, even if all they are doing is begging for money outside of a Kroger. That may not bother some people, but most people would say that being panhandled when you are just trying to buy groceries brings the desirablility of a neighborhood down.
Location: Mableton, GA USA (NW Atlanta suburb, 4 miles OTP)
11,334 posts, read 26,089,277 times
Reputation: 3995
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLTJL
Can't we all just get along?
I think most of us do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgiaLakeSearch
Wow, I did not know the ITP vs. OTP thing was so controversial on this forum!
I know folks ITP and folks who live OTP, and both places can be pretty cool, or can turn out to be a terrible place to live. It all depends on the specific area and expectations, and most bad places are easy to avoid with a little research.
I'll get involved with people who get snarky about things OTP that they're seemingly clueless about, but otherwise it's not an issue for me. More a source of entertainment.
People with kids seek out good public schools, that is probably the #1 reason. The other reasons matter to some, but by and large, the schools matter.
I have lived all over the metro, from in the City of Atlanta to suburbs and even areas that are considered exurbs. I like both ITP/OTP in most areas, but have a preference for in-town living, however, it doesn't suit my own lifestyle at this time. Maybe in the future things will change, one never knows sometimes.
I know this is repetitious here: over time, after you have been around the block a bit, most of us figure it out: the people with the minor kids seek out the areas deemed safe and access to good schools (usually public).
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