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North site - IS NOT really a "hill" in the since that the stadium will sit higher than its surroundings. That's not entirely true. It is on somewhat of a hill, BUT Ivan Allen Blvd elevates above what will be the site, taking away from the "top of the hill" feeling... AND the current Dome looks like it sits on top of a much higher hill.
There is a bridge over the railroad gulch connecting the North site from GA Aquarium and the other stuff...
It's not a very flattering walk between the site and GA Aquarium, but it can be inhanced.
*Gotta remember, the skyline view window in the stadium's design is at an angle from the corner of the field, intended to point either North by NorthEast, OR South by SouthEast... Not both. So....... From the North site, the window will either only show Midtown, if pointing NE, or will show a pretty good view of downtown with the new Skyview illuminating over Centennial Park. I gotta say, that's not a bad view at all... ONLY thing with that view is it doesn't capture the entire skyline....
The north site seems more visible since there's less in the way, mainly due to the railroad tracks below street level. Plus, the north site isn't tucked in the corner of south downtown, so I believe it will be a more prominent location for the stadium. I agree that much of this will depend on what else is built in the surrounding area, especially development to enhance the walk from Pemberton Place, but I don't think it will be a problem enhancing that walking experience.
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It's not really in a position that it is going to positively affect Vine City (although, the GA Dome was right next to Vine City and it didn't induce a lot of development).
To be fair, different people were in charge then, and the people behind this stadium deal know that everyone is expecting a better result for the surrounding neighborhoods. Plus, the neighborhoods have been more vocal than ever this time around, so I expect plenty of development for Vine City (and English Avenue, which is much closer to the north site; Castleberry Hill has developed just fine on its own).
There is no shortage of people complaining about the walk from Largo Station to FedEx...
Lived in DC for 9 years and heard the complaints all season long, every year.
People like the tailgating atmosphere at FedEx, but hate the parking & walk from Largo...
Generally, people would rather their stadium be in the midst of things... Local sports bars, and shops all around the stadium, and yes a "short" walk from transit as opposed to the Castle on a hill of parking design for FedEx. People in DC have only had FedEx since 97, and already are talking bringing the team back into the city...
The opposite side of the arguement is that "a lot of original Skins fans now live in outlying counties and don't want to go into the city to see their team." That's not the case here in ATL. Best policy for Atlanta is always, build as close to MARTA as physically possible. Why? Well, what do people already say about MARTA? "I would use it IF it took me where I want to go, but it doesn't go where the people are going..."
So from here looking forward, yes a 1/2 mile walk is too far away to form new developments that will require people from all over to attend. ALWAYS build as close as possible (so in the future, MARTA is going where the people want to go). It's simple...
Also, I don't know about the view from the north site. I see someone say it will be an awesome view... SO, I set out and stood in various places around the north site and the south site. From what I've found is this:
North site - IS NOT really a "hill" in the since that the stadium will sit higher than its surroundings. That's not entirely true. It is on somewhat of a hill, BUT Ivan Allen Blvd elevates above what will be the site, taking away from the "top of the hill" feeling... AND the current Dome looks like it sits on top of a much higher hill.
There is a bridge over the railroad gulch connecting the North site from GA Aquarium and the other stuff...
It's not a very flattering walk between the site and GA Aquarium, but it can be inhanced.
*Gotta remember, the skyline view window in the stadium's design is at an angle from the corner of the field, intended to point either North by NorthEast, OR South by SouthEast... Not both. So....... From the North site, the window will either only show Midtown, if pointing NE, or will show a pretty good view of downtown with the new Skyview illuminating over Centennial Park. I gotta say, that's not a bad view at all... ONLY thing with that view is it doesn't capture the entire skyline...
IF Times Square South ever gets built, it will obstruct the view of Skyview and the south end of downtown, but it could ALSO look nice if lit right.
It's not really in a position that it is going to positively affect Vine City (although, the GA Dome was right next to Vine City and it didn't induce a lot of development).
North site will sit closer to the CFHOF, which would work out well come Peach Bowl, SEC Championship time... Maybe it'll help us slide into contention to start hosting BCS Championships.
South site - The surrounding streets are elevated, so, like The Dome, it will sit low in the railroad gulch. However, when driving north up the downtown connector, you will actually be able to see it without it being obstructed by the GWCC. The viewing window would point NE, which would allow it to take in all of downtown's skyline, NoSo and some of Midtown from inside the stadium. But the view of Skyview would be at an angle and obstructed. But what WOULD be cool is seeing all the illuminated towers in GA Int'l Plaza.
The South site is definitley more in the midst of better development potential. To be able to develop the entire area between Castleberry and the new dome, making that whole area walkable. Also, with the money promised to be used to develop the surrounding areas, MAYBE Vine City can be turned into a signature neighborhood of Atlanta like OK City did with its Bricktown.
IMO - I think I'd rather the South site, BUT I won't be too upset with the North site. But I can't agree that the North site will be "better" at all.
NFL stadiums belong in the suburbs. They don't have enough games a year to warrant taking up the valuable real estate they absorb. They are way too large for an urban city. There isn't one example of an urban stadium anywhere that can provide the same vibrant mixed use neighborhood as the Verizon Center in Penn Quarter, Nationals Stadium in Capitol Riverfront, or D.C. United’s Future Stadium in Buzzard Point. These stadiums offer way more games and are integrated into the fabric of the city with urban guidelines.
The north site is on the same road and a few blocks away from 4 of our main attractions (distance from Centennial Olympic Park is a wash, IMO), and CNN Center is a glorified food court that gets super crowded on game day. Besides $7 beers, which I've enjoyed before plenty of Falcons, Hawks, Thrashers, and Dream games, I don't see CNN Center as that big of a deal At least there's space to build more restaurants, etc. near the north site, whereas the south site is crammed beside Castleberry Hill, a few parking lots, a Papa Johns, and a check-cashing place
I hope they build it north, where there's actually room and accessibility. That area is past due for better transit access anyway and this will be the catalyst for finally getting that done.
The reason the businesses around CNN can thrive/survive is all the combined events at Phillips and the Dome. If you split those up then I don't see many businesses starting up around the Falcons stadium to only be really busy 20-30 days a year instead of the 100-120 it is now.
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Originally Posted by Zanarkand A East
You speak for all college football fans?
I know plenty of fans that would love to do both while in town for a game, and they can't all go on the same day. Plus, the big games are at night, and they need something to do all day besides tailgating and other crowded attractions.
In town yes, on the day of the game? No, so it doesn't matter if it is close enough to walk between them. The CFHOF will be closer to CNN Center and all the hotels than the north site as well and the south site is just as close to the CFHOF as the north site so it is a wash at best.
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Originally Posted by Zanarkand A East
I meant on non-game days, just to see the stadium. I've been going to Falcons games at the Dome for years and have literally never driven to a game. When the stadium is built on the north site, I'll walk from Civic Center or Vine City, and I have no problem doing so. Hell, for some games, I've taken MARTA to Vine City, walked a half mile to the Yellow Lot (aka the north stadium site) to tailgate, and walked back a half mile to the stadium. People walk insane distances to college football stadiums since the parking is so spread out and there's little to no transit, but suddenly walking a half mile is a problem when they move to Atlanta According to Google Maps, the walk from North Avenue station to Bobby Dodd Stadium is 0.4 miles, yet I see tons of Tech fans make that walk every game day, and others walk even farther from their cars.
It isn't a half a mile from Vine City to the yellow lot, stop saying it is. From Vine City to the absolute closest corner of the lot is 0.6 and the middle of the lot is 0.8. As others have mentioned in this thread transit planners only take into account things within 0.5 mile of a transit station as "walkable" anything further most people will not do. The north site is just as useless as Turner Field.
As a college football fan I can safely say almost no one would care whatsoever about going to a football game AND the CFHOF on the same day. Given the choice between all the bars and restaurants around CNN Center and going to the CFHOF I bet it would be 90-95% would prefer being close to CNN. The north site is a hike to CNN Center and would dramatically cut down on the gameday atmosphere around there.
Maybe you didn't pay enough attention.
I wasn't and am not in support of it being on the North site.
I too am a college football fan (GO DAWGS!!!), and no, I wouldn't visit the CFHOF after a game either. But that is beside the point. The point I was making wasn't for fans... I wasn't saying people would want to go to the CFHOF after a BCS bowl there. Who cares. But who WOULD like to use the CFHOF during bowl events would be the sports media. I can see College Gameday being broadcast live from the CFHOF before a bowl or something...
However, after visiting both sites, I'm convinced the South site would be much better (as I said). North site sucks, BUT if they had to go there, I wouldn't be TOO upset.
NFL stadiums belong in the suburbs. They don't have enough games a year to warrant taking up the valuable real estate they absorb. They are way too large for an urban city. There isn't one example of an urban stadium anywhere that can provide the same vibrant mixed use neighborhood as the Verizon Center in Penn Quarter, Nationals Stadium in Capitol Riverfront, or D.C. United’s Future Stadium in Buzzard Point. These stadiums offer way more games and are integrated into the fabric of the city with urban guidelines.
I hear your point, but don't think I can disagree more...
Just like when your kids say "But Stacey gets to stay up later" and you reply "But I'm not Stacey's dad, but I AM YOUR dad, and this is how it goes in THIS house..." I feel what works for one city isn't a template for what works in the next.
Sure, suburban stadiums work is some places like NYC, Dallas, and so on... BUT there there are some places that it definitely SHOULD be IN the city in order to help fill in space... Sure, DC is pretty much maxed and a suburban stadium can make sense (in that sense) although I personally feel they need to get the Skins out of FedEx eventually and back INTO the city. For ATLANTA specifically, I feel a suburban Falcons stadium would be a tragedy. We are trying trying trying to fill in Downtown and inside the city limits. Moving a stadium that (sure it'll only have 8 NFL season games, but it will also host some college games, concerts, carnivals fairs and circuses, basketball events, etc...) will host major events, then wanting people to have to drive OUTSIDE the city to get to it would just cause more traffic, mean more parking needed (so it'll be a castle in a parking lot like FedEx) and just lack any sort of city culture character capturing ability.
Denver's stadium is close to the city, and Seattle's, and Pittsburgh, and Chicago, and Cleveland, and Cincinnati, and New Orleans, and, and, and....... Those stadiums work very well for those cities. Some even become significant parts of the skyline like in New Orleans.
This is something Atlanta needs...
Also, use the project to help develop Vine City, English Avenue or Castleberry Hill into possibly signature neighborhoods. Probably won't happen (becoming a signature neighborhood) but it IS possible if done right.
Bricktown worked for Oklahoma City (even if many think it's weak, it became a signature neighborhood).
The reason the businesses around CNN can thrive/survive is all the combined events at Phillips and the Dome. If you split those up then I don't see many businesses starting up around the Falcons stadium to only be really busy 20-30 days a year instead of the 100-120 it is now.
In town yes, on the day of the game? No, so it doesn't matter if it is close enough to walk between them. The CFHOF will be closer to CNN Center and all the hotels than the north site as well and the south site is just as close to the CFHOF as the north site so it is a wash at best.
It isn't a half a mile from Vine City to the yellow lot, stop saying it is. From Vine City to the absolute closest corner of the lot is 0.6 and the middle of the lot is 0.8. As others have mentioned in this thread transit planners only take into account things within 0.5 mile of a transit station as "walkable" anything further most people will not do. The north site is just as useless as Turner Field.
Once they build this stadium on the north site, I hope they'll let you host a hair-splitting contest there
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At least there's space to build more restaurants, etc. near the north site, whereas the south site is crammed beside Castleberry Hill, a few parking lots, a Papa Johns, and a check-cashing place 
