Has Atlanta reached peak sprawl? (Macon, Monroe: to rent, HOA fees, condo)

[atler8]

Your last line at 11:38 hit the bullseye tiki... We don't need to continue to subsidize sprawl.

[AnsleyPark]

I'm a bit curious - why is sprawl such a hot topic for folks who live in the city proper? Does the sprawl meaningful impact city dwellers' lives or is it a matter mostly of "I'm right and you're wrong"? Now, don't you guys yell at me! I'm asking seriously. Having lived both intown and now in the burbs, I have my own perspective on this.

[cxbrame]

With the economy coming back from the housing bust, its difficult to say if Atlanta has reached peak sprawl. There's still a big market for affordable single family houses as the area continues to grow. The ordinances that regulate more organized and connected development haven't caught up the apparent shift away from sprawl. Unless told otherwise, many developers will build in the same way they have been.

Sprawl does affect those that live in-town IMO. Because of the limits of the transportation network which hasn't been adequately expanded (connections not nesessarily lanes), its considerably harder to get to a warehouse or office in Alpharetta or Kennesaw. The job market is a lot larger. And while there are options, even with a car it can be a battle trying to get there through the sprawl that forces everyone onto a few roads typically in single occupied cars.

[tikigod311]

My guess is that people that choose to live in the city for the experience tend to be more conscience of the way cities develop. Therefore it is more of interest / more important to them.

TBH, the more sprawl you have the lower your rents will be intown. There is one silver lining for the anti-sprawl crowd.

[gerrythesnake]

Sprawl is good. I want to have space when I buy a house with land

[Born 2 Roll]

Originally Posted by jsvh

Do you mean we have to have a subsidized, government run transit system to be a successful city? Do you think we can settle to only be as successful as Hong Kong or Tokyo where the fares cover 186% and 175% of the cost running the system? (Yes, that is right, their profit margin is higher than many private companies out there).

BTW, here is the stock if you want to invest: 66:Hong Kong Stock Quote - MTR Corp Ltd - Bloomberg

This is an excellent point as Hong Kong and Tokyo are examples of mega-sized metro regions with mega-large transit networks that not only cover the cost of running their respective systems, but are also highly-profitable helping those transit systems to remain operationally and financially viable.

Your comments also illustrate a very important point and the stark reality that the only way that transit (and transportation in general) can and will be funded is with huge amounts of private capital in an Atlanta region where transportation funding is increasingly extremely scarce and additional transportation funding through traditional means (like tax increases approved by voter referendums or legislative votes) is not coming anytime soon (if ever).

The only way that transportation (particularly transit, but also roads) will be funded at the very-high level that is needed is if the Atlanta region and the State of Georgia fully embrace private investor financing of multimodal transportation corridors (corridors that include parallel and connecting rail and bus transit lines and major roads).

There are no big successful regional voter referendums or courageous legislative votes to raise transportation funding revenues through tax increases coming down the pike at anytime in the remotely near future.

Private investment is the only way that the Atlanta region is going to be able to fund the level of transportation operations that it sorely needs.

[bhammaster]

Originally Posted by jsvh

We don't need this. We just need people to pay the full cost of their commute. Very few are going to choose $100 less in rent if it costs them $300 extra a month to get to work. And for those that do, good for them. Let them pay to live that lifestyle if that is what they want.

Rents for the same quality apartment in a safe area are much more then $100 cheaper in the burbs. More like $200-$300 min. Intown apartments in good areas are pricey.

[bhammaster]

Yes.

As far as building more suburbs further out we have reached the max and wont go out any further.

The only way we will go further is to have more jobs further out.

What will happen now is we will see more infill for the areas that already developed.

[Born 2 Roll]

Originally Posted by cxbrame

With the economy coming back from the housing bust, its difficult to say if Atlanta has reached peak sprawl. There's still a big market for affordable single family houses as the area continues to grow. The ordinances that regulate more organized and connected development haven't caught up the apparent shift away from sprawl. Unless told otherwise, many developers will build in the same way they have been.

This is a good point, though a major problem is that developers are building denser development, but they're building that denser development on the meandering inadequate road network nowhere near transit lines.

...Something which has only lead to more congestion on the inadequate road network as developers pack more people into higher-density smaller lots in developments which may have only had lower-density larger lots in years and decades past.

Originally Posted by cxbrame

Sprawl does affect those that live in-town IMO. Because of the limits of the transportation network which hasn't been adequately expanded (connections not nesessarily lanes), its considerably harder to get to a warehouse or office in Alpharetta or Kennesaw. The job market is a lot larger. And while there are options, even with a car it can be a battle trying to get there through the sprawl that forces everyone onto a few roads typically in single occupied cars.

This^^^^^This is an EXCELLENT POINT!!!!

Metro Atlanta's road network as a whole (particularly Metro Atlanta's network of surface arterial roads) is one of the worst in the nation at handling heavy volumes of traffic because of the lack of a grid network and political impossibility of expanding the road network to accommodate the increasingly heavy volumes of traffic that has been generated by the low-density automobile-focused development.

...And the extreme political, social and cultural reluctance to expand the transit network to relieve congestion stress and take pressure off of the physically and politically-constrained road network has only made matters worse.

[Mostar]

In my opinion the major sprawl is just starting. Most of the college students who want to continue living in the city will need places to stay.