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You need proof that it was the streetcars and passenger trains that made the profit and not the "other sources of revenue" as you so easily dismiss them. For the record, a streetcar that makes $1.00 and spends $0.90 per month isn't "profitable" as far as business is concerned, the profit margins need to be substantial for a company to continue running them unless they are a non-profit (which these weren't).
You've been getting much more reasonable lately... But I'm gonna call you out on this. An 11% margin is a very healthy margin and certainly enough to sustain operations.
You've been getting much more reasonable lately... But I'm gonna call you out on this. An 11% margin is a very healthy margin and certainly enough to sustain operations.
Why would and 11% margin not be enough?
It largely depends on the business I guess. My overall point however was that a marginal profit doesn't mean a business will see worth in operating it especially as a sole, or majority-earner. Businesses, except non-profits, are driven to increase their profit as much as possible which is why they will operate a money-loser in order to greatly increase the value or potential of their main money maker, but will not operate a money-loser on its own. Maybe a better "real-number" example might be if the cost per month was $990,000 and the income was $1,000,000, yes, it's technically profitable, but would any real profit-oriented business run that by itself? (ok, on thinking about it a bit more, $10,000 isn't too bad, that's enough for two mid-level employees' salaries a year, but that's before any other overhead)
Ok: Have direct user fees pay for 100% of highway costs.
No, I mean how to make it profitable without the "side" (really the main, but you don't seem to know history so I'll use your term) business supporting it. Crippling another "business" doesn't automatically make the other profitable.
No, I mean how to make it profitable without the "side" (really the main, but you don't seem to know history so I'll use your term) business supporting it. Crippling another "business" doesn't automatically make the other profitable.
I don't care if transit is the only thing a business does. I am fine if as a private business they also sell ads, build TODs, or whatever the heck they want.
Should we force government to take over all the search engines since they have to sell ads to be profitable? Can gas stations still have convince stores (Where they make most their profits)?
Accept it Matt: If we let it, the free market has and can work for transportation industry like it does for other industries. Politicians and bureaucrats are not the best way to determine what type of transportation should go where. Let the users decide what routes are worth the money.
I don't care if transit is the only thing a business does. I am fine if as a private business they also sell ads, build TODs, or whatever the heck they want.
You should care because you're insisting it's profitable when it isn't! You want business to take over transportation, but it has NO REASON to do so!
Quote:
Should we force government to take over all the search engines since they have to sell ads to be profitable? Can gas stations still have convince stores (Where they make most their profits)?
Now what are you getting at? Are you trying to claim I'm promoting communism or something? Where the government automatically assumes control of industries of a certain character? Or the government always limits business ventures? I don't see what search engines and convenience stores have to do with transportation funding. You're grasping at straws and only hurting yourself.
Quote:
Accept it Matt: If we let it, the free market has and can work for transportation industry like it does for other industries. Politicians and bureaucrats are not the best way to determine what type of transportation should go where. Let the users decide what routes are worth the money.
We let the free market work and it didn't! Why do you have such a problem with history? Do you know what the streetcar conspiracy was? That's right, the free market. The free market is inherently greedy and operates only in the best interest of itself and not of the community.
Streetcar conspiracy was not free market. It was collusion and should have never been allowed by anti-trust. But it would not have changed how things went besides that. The highway subsidies were just ramping up and private transit companies still had a long way to fall after that.
In the various discussions I have provided you real life examples of: multiple past private streetcar companies in Atlanta that operated without subsidy, modern day private and profitable transit and highway companies operating in other countries without subsidy, modern day profitable private bus lines that operate in Atlanta metro for less than MARTA fares with no subsidy.
You will never stop moving the goal posts. There is no point to discussing it with you.
First one was funny, this one not so much... And believe it or not I drive a Leaf as a commuter car
Last edited by gtcorndog; 08-15-2014 at 05:34 PM..
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