New Atlanta airport master plan eyes new gates, sixth runway (coupon, living)

[jsvh]

Smart.

[Need4Camaro]

I don't know that I could support throwing up more and more parking garages but I do question the availability of alternative means of getting to HJIA, when I lived in Rockdale County I used to commute there every day, 90% of the time I used MARTA as I did not want to deal with parking - but on the same token taking MARTA there from Rockdale (leaving the house by 5am, driving about 30 - 40 minutes to Indian Creek and taking the first train out) was not cakewalk and it had to be done perfectly or I was going to be late. If transit systems had more extensive coverage throughout the metro I could easily support the idea but right now I can't say I feel they're ready for it.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

I don't know that I could support throwing up more and more parking garages but I do question the availability of alternative means of getting to HJIA, when I lived in Rockdale County I used to commute there every day, 90% of the time I used MARTA as I did not want to deal with parking - but on the same token taking MARTA there from Rockdale (leaving the house by 5am, driving about 30 - 40 minutes to Indian Creek and taking the first train out) was not cakewalk and it had to be done perfectly or I was going to be late. If transit systems had more extensive coverage throughout the metro I could easily support the idea but right now I can't say I feel they're ready for it.

As part of the region transit bills, SRTA/GRTA would implement service improvements, which would include service to the Airport from P&R lots.

https://saportareport.com/grtas-draf...-major-routes/

[cwkimbro]

Originally Posted by cqholt

As part of the region transit bills, SRTA/GRTA would implement service improvements, which would include service to the Airport from P&R lots.

https://saportareport.com/grtas-draf...-major-routes/

I was all for this when it came out, but I'm actually concerned it is set up for failure.

The problem is splitting up people using it for airport traveler access and people who are working.

The travel access I think will go underused from people not figuring it out, etc... But also because there are issues with overnight parking, both in public planning on providing enough parking with very little transit use given how long the car occupies a space and in terms of consumers feeling safe leaving their car in that area with limited security overnight.

It seems it is best if we choose between travelers parking @ Sugarloaf or the airport... it is better at the airport. Atleast then they are paying for it. It is more convenient door-to-door. The parking amount still exists... it just shifts location.

The other problem is catering to travelers could greatly increase the cost of the route. They are more likely to be finicky about frequent schedules, since they aren't going to/from the same place at the same time. They are going at odd hours throughout the day and will want more flexibility on their return.

Commuter buses won't do this cheaply.




But the real reason I'm concerned about these routes, especially Cobb and Gwinnett/Sugarloaf is this map:




This map is where people work that live in that drawn polygon. Most airport workers that live in Gwinnett South of there are unlikely to drive up there to get to the airport, but I think most in the polygon could consider driving to the P&R a feasible option.

The issue is the demand is weak. It isn't just getting people to choose the commuters to choose the bus, it is simply weak demand.

It seems like Cumberland, Perimeter Center, CDC, and Buckhead are all better routes to startup/strengthen first.


Now this analysis for Newnan and Stockbridge might show far more promise, even more so if they can make a convenient transfer path to the MARTA station (ie. maybe a drop off at a new entrance/staircase to the station from outside).

It is also less distance, cheaper to operate, and would be easier to set up all-day service being able to service a greater variety of consumers.


Here is Newnan for contrast:



It is an area with fewer consumers, but it is a primary destination for them and it gives them connections to other primary destinations in the same direction.



I'm not against Xpress buses, I'm just questioning where the next order of buses should go.

[aries4118]

Originally Posted by cqholt

As part of the region transit bills, SRTA/GRTA would implement service improvements, which would include service to the Airport from P&R lots.

https://saportareport.com/grtas-draf...-major-routes/

Originally Posted by cwkimbro

I was all for this when it came out, but I'm actually concerned it is set up for failure.

The problem is splitting up people using it for airport traveler access and people who are working.

The travel access I think will go underused from people not figuring it out, etc... But also because there are issues with overnight parking, both in public planning on providing enough parking with very little transit use given how long the car occupies a space and in terms of consumers feeling safe leaving their car in that area with limited security overnight.

It seems it is best if we choose between travelers parking @ Sugarloaf or the airport... it is better at the airport. Atleast then they are paying for it. It is more convenient door-to-door. The parking amount still exists... it just shifts location.

The other problem is catering to travelers could greatly increase the cost of the route. They are more likely to be finicky about frequent schedules, since they aren't going to/from the same place at the same time. They are going at odd hours throughout the day and will want more flexibility on their return.

Commuter buses won't do this cheaply.




But the real reason I'm concerned about these routes, especially Cobb and Gwinnett/Sugarloaf is this map:




This map is where people work that live in that drawn polygon. Most airport workers that live in Gwinnett South of there are unlikely to drive up there to get to the airport, but I think most in the polygon could consider driving to the P&R a feasible option.

The issue is the demand is weak. It isn't just getting people to choose the commuters to choose the bus, it is simply weak demand.

It seems like Cumberland, Perimeter Center, CDC, and Buckhead are all better routes to startup/strengthen first.


Now this analysis for Newnan and Stockbridge might show far more promise, even more so if they can make a convenient transfer path to the MARTA station (ie. maybe a drop off at a new entrance/staircase to the station from outside).

It is also less distance, cheaper to operate, and would be easier to set up all-day service being able to service a greater variety of consumers.


Here is Newnan for contrast:



It is an area with fewer consumers, but it is a primary destination for them and it gives them connections to other primary destinations in the same direction.



I'm not against Xpress buses, I'm just questioning where the next order of buses should go.

Logan Express bus service

[cwkimbro]

Originally Posted by aries4118

Logan Express bus service

The problem we would face with this example is Logan has very little land around it and there is very little room for off-site parking lots or larger on-site parking to make up for it.

This prices out many people from being able to park at the airport, so much that the bus service costs $12 one-way and they charge $7/day for parking.

Whereas, here I would almost always drive to the airport park off-site, take a free shuttle provided by the lot and do very well.

This also isn't set up for workers/commuters. It is really set up to solve a problem that can't otherwise fix.



Logan's "Economy Lot" rates are $39/day 1 and $26/day after. it is so high from simple supply problems.


In short, in Atlanta this would face intense demand and likely not work very well.


I bet their Uber demand is surreal.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by cwkimbro

The problem we would face with this example is Logan has very little land around it and there is very little room for off-site parking lots or larger on-site parking to make up for it.

This prices out many people from being able to park at the airport, so much that the bus service costs $12 one-way and they charge $7/day for parking.

Whereas, here I would almost always drive to the airport park off-site, take a free shuttle provided by the lot and do very well.

This also isn't set up for workers/commuters. It is really set up to solve a problem that can't otherwise fix.



Logan's "Economy Lot" rates are $39/day 1 and $26/day after. it is so high from simple supply problems.


In short, in Atlanta this would face intense demand and likely not work very well.


I bet their Uber demand is surreal.

And they don't even have a direct transit connection to the airport.

[samiwas1]

Originally Posted by cqholt

HJIA considers scaling back the need for more expensive parking garages, in the wake of ride hailing services.

"We’re going to have to ask ourselves the question, ‘Do we still need eight levels on the South side?'"

Where does HJIA have eight levels of parking?

[JMatl]

Originally Posted by cqholt

And they don't even have a direct transit connection to the airport.

Not like we do by any means, but they consider it to be 'direct.'

The Blue Line has a station there, but it's about a 1/4 mile away and connected by free MBTA buses that run to all Terminals and the Rental Car Complex every 5 minutes. It's less than ideal for sure.

I love Boston, but Logan is a total cluster.

We used to have something similar to the Logan Express years ago, the Northside Airport Express. The station I used to use when visiting friends was OTP on Memorial, in the shopping center where the old Manuel's Tavern was. Other stations were clustered around the Perimeter in places like Windy Hill Rd, etc. It was extremely popular, frequent and very reasonable. Not sure what happened to it, but by the time I moved here it was long gone.

[JMatl]

Originally Posted by samiwas1

Where does HJIA have eight levels of parking?

They don't yet. The plan was to demolish both of the existing decks adjacent to the North and South Terminals after the canopies have been installed, and replace them with 8 level decks. They've since decided to scale back North to 4 levels, now they're considering the same for South.