Yes, You Can Build Your Way to Affordable Housing (Atlanta: sale, transporting)

[stoxdiamond]

Originally Posted by arjay57

And what are comps going for? For example, consider this Grove Park beauty for only $259,800. While that may seem entirely reasonable, it's more than $100,000 higher than similar homes along Hollowell Parkway. https://atlanta.curbed.com/2017/10/4...galow-for-sale

So this home is $100,000 higher than similar homes, which means that similar homes would go for around $160,000. There seems to be plenty of affordable places all around Atlanta ITP. I know the location is rough around the edges but it'll improve just like the rest of the city has.

Or does everyone think they deserve to live in a place zoned for Inman Middle School for a low price?

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by arjay57

There's no doubt that housing prices in several parts of the city have increased. However, that's due to a number of factors, and not simply density.

For instance, you have to look at whether the house has been renovated and, if so, the quality of those renovations. What's the reputation of nearby schools? Do you have recreational amenities such as the Beltline? How is crime (both real and perceived) in the area? Is there a "trendiness" bonus? Is the neighborhood seen as one on the way up or the way down? How's the local shopping? How easy is it to drive to employment and cultural centers? Are there sidewalks? Is there a fenced yard? Is there trash or debris in the area? Do you get a garage or do you have to park on the street?

And what are comps going for? For example, consider this Grove Park beauty for only $259,800. While that may seem entirely reasonable, it's more than $100,000 higher than similar homes along Hollowell Parkway. https://atlanta.curbed.com/2017/10/4...galow-for-sale

All these and many other factors play into the mix.

Which is why I keep saying demand. Density is simply a method of managing that demand via increased supply. The other primary method is to increase prices until few enough people can afford to live there that demand is 'removed'.

You can wave your hands and say the issue's as complicated as you want, and to an extent that's true, particularly on an individual level, but we're not really talking about individual instances. We're talking about aggregates.

Overall prices are increasing because overall there is a shortage of housing. If you allow the opportunity for density to increase overall, then overall demand can be met by variety of build types and environments. THEN individuals will have the ability to have as many choices to live in as possible, at as many price points as possible.

We need to open up our codes in ways we know work. Allow medium density by default. Remove parking requirements. Remove set backs. Let demand dictate what gets built, and where. Let's meet as much of our housing need as we can before we seal off the city to all but the most wealthy.

If people really want single-family homes more than density, then they will continue to pay lots of money for them. If enough people want dense housing, then land will be redeveloped. If people want transit oriented development, then that will be built. If people want cul-de-sacs and twisting subdivisions, then that will be built.

It's time we got the government out of the practice of dictating to the public what kind of living environment will be prioritized through zoning code (with obvious exceptions for public safety, public health, and environmental integrity). Let's actually give people the ability to choose, and let's let the market actually respond to them.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by stoxdiamond

So this home is $100,000 higher than similar homes, which means that similar homes would go for around $160,000. There seems to be plenty of affordable places all around Atlanta ITP. I know the location is rough around the edges but it'll improve just like the rest of the city has.

Or does everyone think they deserve to live in a place zoned for Inman Middle School for a low price?

I think the problem is that prices are far outpacing both wages and inflation, and a huge component of that is caused by comparatively easy to fix zoning rules that artificially suppress supply. I think the problem is that we're hurting people's ability to reduce their transportation costs, improve their economic mobility, and live near services, all while reducing their total impact on the environment.

We are unnecessarily making it harder for people, and society at large. That goes for Virginia Highland as much as it does for Grant Park or West End.

[samiwas1]

Originally Posted by jsvh

And that one parking space you want to require takes up as much land as a studio apartment. For many sites you will not have enough land and / or money for both.

Read my post again. I said "allow". On the street. Not require. Allow. As in, you can park up to one car on the street per ADU, if the street has street parking. But not more. But, you don't have to have a space. I'm specifically arguing against more cars here, unless they can be contained within the property, and I'm not talking about parking in the yard like neanderthals.

[samiwas1]

Originally Posted by cqholt

Once again putting cars above people.

Well, I'm a person, even if I'm in my car. Why should we always prioritize for walkers and bikers, who are a minute percentage of travelers? Making it reasonably safe for them is one thing. Prioritizing for them is another.

Cars are put "above people" because most roads probably see literally thousands of times more daily vehicles than they do walkers and bikers combined, even in the most walkable and transit-oriented cities on earth.

[AnsleyPark]

Originally Posted by cqholt

Once again putting cars above people. How long until you move to the Redneck Riviera?

People are in cars, unless you didn’t notice...

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by stoxdiamond

So this home is $100,000 higher than similar homes, which means that similar homes would go for around $160,000. There seems to be plenty of affordable places all around Atlanta ITP. I know the location is rough around the edges but it'll improve just like the rest of the city has.

Or does everyone think they deserve to live in a place zoned for Inman Middle School for a low price?

Housing prices depend on a lot of things. A house might bring X in one location and 3X in another. So it's a lot more complicated than just supply and demand or the amount of inventory.

[brown_dog_us]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

If people really want single-family homes more than density, then they will continue to pay lots of money for them. If enough people want dense housing, then land will be redeveloped. If people want transit oriented development, then that will be built. If people want cul-de-sacs and twisting subdivisions, then that will be built.

Are you really OK with this?

The reason I asked you early where to build the SFHs for millenials is because if we don't create a place for them ITP then they will be built OTP far from transit.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by samiwas1

Well, I'm a person, even if I'm in my car. Why should we always prioritize for walkers and bikers, who are a minute percentage of travelers? Making it reasonably safe for them is one thing. Prioritizing for them is another.

Cars are put "above people" because most roads probably see literally thousands of times more daily vehicles than they do walkers and bikers combined, even in the most walkable and transit-oriented cities on earth.

Is that because we have transformed our built environment to one that is only inviting to cars? Think about majority of our retail, there front not a sidewalk or street, but a parking lot.

[AnsleyPark]

Originally Posted by cqholt

Is that because we have transformed our built environment to one that is only inviting to cars? Think about majority of our retail, there front not a sidewalk or street, but a parking lot.

Last time I checked, there are lots of sidewalks in town. Gotta have parking lots, cq. That's just how the world works right now. Maybe in 25 years things will be different. But, for now? Gotta have parking lots.