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I have friends in Alpharetta and Cumming and they tell me people are moving further north on GA 400 towards exit 17 and above for buying houses. This could also happen due to vacant lands not available around 12A/13/14. People are OK to move further north and away from jobs (Downtown, Buckhead, Perimeter) and I am told this migration is due to COVID as if COVID is here to stay for super long (though I understand no one can predict the future inspite of vaccines being developed). My question is - Given COVID is a temporary phenomena and everything will be hopefully as normal as before soon (with the new normal), why move to exurbs ? Is it really true that people are moving to distant suburbs with no regard to commuting distance ? this is applicable for every big city or population center that have tons of jobs ?
I dont think I have been able to phrase my question well but I hope you get it. Stay safe.
People were already moving in large numbers to an area like off of Exit 17 along Georgia 400 because of the very high quality of the public schools in an area like Forsyth County in an area where a large and growing hub of high-paying jobs exists relatively close down the road in an area like Alpharetta.
With the pandemic raging and forcing a much larger number of people to work remotely, including from home, for an extended and indefinite period of time, there seem to be many people who are buying homes in and moving to outer-suburban and exurban areas (like Alpharetta, Cumming, North Forsyth County, etc.) so that they can get more house for the same (or even in some cases, less) amount of money than they might have in an area closer to the urban core of a large major metropolitan area.
It probably also should be noted that the apparent increase in the popularity of outer-suburban and exurban living during the ongoing pandemic is not necessarily just from people who may move to the outer suburbs and exurbs from closer-in parts of the Atlanta metropolitan area.
Nationally, there seems to be a trend, at least in some quarters, of people seemingly moving in larger numbers than before from higher-cost urban areas in states like California and New York to lower-cost outer-suburban and exurban areas like Texas, Georgia, North Carolina, Tennessee, etc.
Many of the people moving into a far outer-suburban/exurban area like around Georgia 400 Exit 17 may not necessarily just be moving into the area from closer-in parts of the Atlanta metropolitan area, but also are likely to be moving into the area from higher-cost parts of the country like California and the Northeast.
(For example, the very high-profile recent 2-month long double Georgia US Senate runoff contest seemed to have sparked a significantly increased amount of interest in Georgia (particularly metro Atlanta) as a prime relocation destination for affluent Californians whom already have been relocating in droves to Western states for several years. The double Georgia US Senate runoff also seemed to increase interest in Georgia amongst affluent and middle class Northeasterners whom have already been moving in large numbers to Georgia for decades.)
Also while COVID may or may not be a temporary phenomenon (but hopefully very likely is a temporary thing), the much of the increased remote work/work-from-home trend that the pandemic has forced is likely to stay around after the pandemic ends.
There are many people who likely will want to (or need to) return to in-person office work after the pandemic ends.
But there are many more people who likely will want to (or need to) continue working remote/from home after the pandemic ends.
The massive increase in the amount of people working from home because of the pandemic is a major factor that is motivating many people all across the nation to want to move to farther-out suburban and exurban areas...
... So that they can purchase larger homes that can accommodate home office and home workspace for the same or less money amount of money that they likely may already be spending on a significantly smaller home that is either located closer to the urban core and/or in a much higher-cost part of the country.
Last edited by Born 2 Roll; 01-31-2021 at 06:28 AM..
People were already moving in large numbers to an area like off of Exit 17 along Georgia 400 because of the very high quality of the public schools in an area like Forsyth County in an area where a large and growing hub of high-paying jobs exists relatively close down the road in an area like Alpharetta.
Yea it's really been in the works for awhile now. COVID just helped it out even more.
And yea, Cumming is pretty dang far from downtown Atlanta but there are lots of high paying jobs in Alpharetta.
My office off Windward Pkwy is a tick above 10 miles from downtown Cumming. GA-369 is just 15.5 miles. Obviously with traffic it would take a decent amount of time but probably less time than from my parents house near Duluth/Suwanee/Lawrenceville. Tons of people commute across the river from Gwinnett and have worse commutes than someone commuting from north of Cumming.
To be honest, I don’t think the number of people moving to the outer suburbs/exurbs because they can work from home actually outpaces the number of people who actually want to live in the City of Atlanta. I know many people enjoy the manicured, car-centric, big box, largely socioeconomically homogeneous communities of the suburbs. And I understand that. But even if one could work from home, or even lived in the city and had a reverse commute to work in the suburbs, some people just like city life.
Many people I know ask pretty regularly about how and when they can move into the city. And even when the costs are relatively high (by Atlanta standards), homes still aren’t sitting around long. People are still buying and moving in... There is enough of what people want in the suburbs and the city. But it is actually two different lifestyles. Regardless of where they work, some people like the lore of being near the culture and conveniences of being closer to the urban core. I know many lawyers, doctors, white-collar professionals, and everyday millionaires who live in the very areas that many suburban posters on this forum have shunned — not because they have to; but because they want to. Many also work from home. There’s something about the history and authenticity as well.
These same families send their kids to school in the city and have relatively low incidences of crime. There was the high profile shooting at Lenox (from out-of-towners) that startled some people (mostly those in Buckhead and the northern suburbs). But if you aren’t hanging around drug dealers, robbers, and scammers, your chances of being a crime victim is not nearly as high as the people here make it out to be. When there was a crime wave in the city 10 years ago, people were still moving in; and when there was a crime wave 10 years before that, people were still moving in. So I don’t see a mass-exodus now...
Regarding schools, there are always comments about what the “stats” say about whether a school is good or not. But if we are defining “good” by the ability to prepare YOUR child to go into a top college/profession with scholarships, etc. then there are plenty in the city. I think many misconstrue this by the number of lower-income or minority students that attend — which affects the stats. But, believe it or not, kids from Jackson, Grady, North Atlanta, and even KIPP go to (and graduate from) the same colleges as kids from Riverwood or Marietta High.
Realistically, If someone could afford to live in Decatur, I think they would be hard-pressed to choose to leave that area in order to go to any of the suburban cities in the metro. It is true that the city is more liberal, inclusive and heterogeneous than the suburbs, which may be a turn off to some. But I believe this mass exodus to suburbs that people have been talking about for the past 10 years is a bit overblown.
In terms of homes, bigger isn’t always better. My utility bills and gas bills are FAR less than what they were in the suburbs. But if you want a 3000+ sf home in a safe area, they are in the city and inner suburbs also. I actually know my neighbors, and the conveniences of the city are right at my doorstep. Even if my job were not 5 miles from my home, it is a lifestyle that I (and MANY others) don’t think we can give up. I know many posters offering the most advice here actually live the northern suburbs and not the city, so I would not expect them to give an exceedingly accurate view of the differences between the two.
Would many Inman Park/Grant Park residents be dying to move to the suburbs? I doubt it. At the end of the day, there will be people from other parts of the country seeking the suburbs, just as there will be people seeking the intown lifestyle. But I don’t think there is huge wave of people moving out of the city to the ‘burbs — at least not at an exceedingly higher rate of those moving from the suburbs to the city...
Last edited by equinox63; 01-31-2021 at 11:16 AM..
The big driving factor is work from home, I work for the federal government & pre-covid only had to be in the office 1 day a week. I could pick the day of the week, so I would drive from Cumming to 5 points & park across from the MLK building on Forsyth street. I took about 50 minutes on Friday leaving at 6:50 when the bus picks up my son for school. A 50 minute commute one day a week wasn't killing me & to be honest I really liked the one day a week out of the house. Now we are full time "telework" work form home & I don't see us going back into the office anytime soon.
I picked Cumming due to a schools, bigger lots & houses, plus lower property taxes. Having a house big enough to dedicate a room to a office is a big driving factor, now when you are married & the husband plus wife are working from home then more space is needed. Creature comforts become a bigger deal, who wants to be trapped in a 1k square foot condo when you can be in a 3500 square foot house with a 1500 square foot basement. Add in schools & your only 30 minutes form 90% of things Atlanta has to offer, then what are the drawbacks?
The big one being WFH, obviously if one can get cheaper housing without the need to live by their job.
But the second factor, and note I am in no way trying to make this a post about which side of politics is better. But most large cities are blue, and many republicans who are unhappy about closed schools, mask mandates, etc. are wanting to move farther from the city center where the population tends to skew more republican. Independent of Atlanta, I have many such friends that are choosing to move away from the city center to areas that better align with their personal beliefs. I'd imagine to some degree the same thing could be taking place in Atlanta.
Lastly, I think COVID just caused people to re-evaluate their lives in general, and make plans for what they wanted to change in the future. We've seen a positive trend towards getting out in nature, which could also be playing a factor.
Increased movement of people from cities to suburbs during pandemic and exurbs is a national trend
The migration of many people from urban neighborhoods to the suburbs and exurbs is not just a local Atlanta thing but is a national movement that is a product of the pandemic.
In fact, while there does seem to some evidence of people who have moved from urban neighborhoods in ITP/Intown Atlanta to suburban and exurban neighborhoods in OTP metro Atlanta and beyond, the apparent noticeable movement from urban neighborhoods to the suburbs and exurbs appears to be much more pronounced in other parts of the country.
The apparent noticeable movement of many residents from urban neighborhoods to suburban and exurban neighborhoods appears to be most pronounced in very high-cost parts of the country like the West Coast (including urban coastal California and Seattle) and the Northeast (including New York).
Quote:
Where were all these people moving to -- and from?
Contracts from moving van companies Atlas Van Lines and U-Haul show that people who chose to move to a new state headed away from the population centers on the coasts, with New York and California losing the most residents in 2020. And NAR's report found newly untethered remote workers left big cities for the suburbs...
... Leaving big cities for the suburbs - While large cities lost the most people during the first seven months of the pandemic, many residents that left didn't go far, according to NAR's analysis...
... Suburban counties topped the list of places gaining the most people, while cities saw the biggest losses.
Increasingly, people who have been newly untethered from office life and have the means for mobility, are questioning why they are fighting so hard and paying so much to stay in the city.
Leaving the city (and not looking back) - As the coronavirus continues to dominate our day-to-day lives, people who are wealthy enough to leave major cities are increasingly looking for places to live with more space, fewer people and greater affordability, said Jonathan Miller, president of Miller Samuel, an appraisal firm in New York.
Georgia also appears to be one of the top beneficiaries of this pandemic-induced national movement from urban neighborhoods to suburban and exurban neighborhoods.
Georgia was ranked 10th in migration growth during much of 2020 by U-Haul moving trucks.
Though, the survey potentially may not have taken place during the last 7-8 weeks of the year when the US Senate runoff election appeared to generate a spike in interest in Georgia as a major relocation destination for residents in more heavily populated higher-cost parts of the country like California and the Northeast.
Quote:
Ohio, Arizona, Colorado, Missouri, Nevada, North Carolina and Georgia round out the top 10 states for 2020 growth as self-movers continue to migrate to the Southeast, as well as markets in the Southwest, Midwest and Rocky Mountain regions.
B2R, I keep seeing you mention the senate races as being a big deciding factor for people moving here. What have you been hearing that's convinced you that the races have had that much influence on migration-- and do you believe the outcome of the races will lead different people to move here than before?
The reason I'm asking I guess is that I didn't consider the possibility of demographic changes being a result of the election news.
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Increased movement of people from cities to suburbs during pandemic and exurbs is a national trend
