Why there is no Marta in Cobb or Gwinnett (Atlanta: 2014, roughest)

[rrampage]

Originally Posted by Gulch

What extension? That half-baked BRT proposal?

I'm talking about a general rail line extension that makes sense.

[waronxmas]

Originally Posted by primaltech

The forced bus/rail transfer at North Springs station is the main part that irritates me about it. Because nobody's going to North Springs, as it's just a parking deck station and not a destination station. So basically every single rider on every trip in both directions is going to have a forced transfer just to keep going in the same direction.

And it's a shame because, in general I think the freeway BRT system in all-managed lanes with the nice in-line stations like that, is a pretty good idea for cost-effective, suburbs-connecting transit in metro ATL.

Like, going back to the topic, here, a BRT just like that design, along I-75 from Arts Center to the Battery in Cumberland, that would be really great. Because there's not an HRT line there to extend.

We'll see how it goes but it's probably going to be somewhere in the middle. Despite the type of transit selected, anyone using it in North Fulton or points north will only be using it for three things more than likely: Commuting into to city for work, going to an event, going to Airport. With that in mind, a bus could totally work if it was in dedicated ROW and had actual stations instead of the myriad of parking lots that make up Park and Ride today.

It actually may end up being successful since I know a lot of people would like to take the train to Airport in particular, but they don't see the sense of driving to North Springs. This would eliminate that blocker as there is a station closer to home they could be dropped off at versus a distinct lack of regularity in that regard.

Forget about any version of this that has the Northern OTP burbs turn into places where people use transit regularly. The environment isn't built for that and they prefer it that way in the land of strip malls and subdivisions. Also, no other city in the country even those with commuter rail are any different.

[rrampage]

Originally Posted by waronxmas

We'll see how it goes but it's probably going to be somewhere in the middle. Despite the type of transit selected, anyone using it in North Fulton or points north will only be using it for three things more than likely: Commuting into to city for work, going to an event, going to Airport. With that in mind, a bus could totally work if it was in dedicated ROW and had actual stations instead of the myriad of parking lots that make up Park and Ride today.

It actually may end up being successful since I know a lot of people would like to take the train to Airport in particular, but they don't see the sense of driving to North Springs. This would eliminate that blocker as there is a station closer to home they could be dropped off at versus a distinct lack of regularity in that regard.

Forget about any version of this that has the Northern OTP burbs turn into places where people use transit regularly. The environment isn't built for that and they prefer it that way in the land of strip malls and subdivisions. Also, no other city in the country even those with commuter rail are any different.

There is a market for commuter rail in the Northern OTP suburbs of North Fulton. The market hasn't been fully tapped to it's potential yet.

Portland, Oregon's commuter rail is ahead of it's time for a metro area of that size. Commuter rail seems to be held back in many areas of the country due to a unsubstantiated fear of crime. There has always been an effort to "derail" any ideas of public transit even being under consideration in many areas.

[primaltech]

Unlike Gwinnett/Cobb, there are no railroad corridors at all in Fulton County north of Atlanta. (Or in Forsyth County.) So they're never going to get a proper commuter or regional rail up there. Which was why it was perfect that Fulton happens to be a MARTA county, and happens to have a heavy rail line already along GA-400. Simply extending that north up to Windward Pkwy at the north end of the county, with park and ride stations, would have served N Fulton (and Forsyth) commuters, with a one-seat train ride to the ATL airport, Downtown with all its regional amenities, and Midtown, Buckhead and Perimeter, with all their tons of jobs and shopping malls and all that. Plus the Pill Hill/Medical Center area with those hospitals. Plus all the reverse commuters heading to jobs in Alpharetta, and Avalon and such.

It's just so stupid to pass that up. So utterly, completely dumb. Especially since they've paid the damn MARTA tax since forever. Do they not want actual quality rapid rail service in return for their taxes and participation in MARTA?

MARTA rail was designed and intended from the outset as a 'hybrid' system, with the ideal mix of in-town subway and suburban park&ride commuter rail, and with all lines heading downtown, minimizing the need for transfers.

The BRT from N Springs to Windward is I guess better than nothing, but the forced transfers and other delays will kill ridership. Especially since its opening will coincide (or probably come after) those 4 new lanes of managed Peach Pass (Lexus) lanes, which everyone up there will use. GA-400 is going to be essentially doubling its vehicle capacity, in an ugly concrete overpass monstrosity. The highway was fine. They should have left it alone and extended the rail line.

[Gulch]

Originally Posted by primaltech

Especially since its opening will coincide (or probably come after) those 4 new lanes of managed Peach Pass (Lexus) lanes, which everyone up there will use. GA-400 is going to be essentially doubling its vehicle capacity, in an ugly concrete overpass monstrosity. The highway was fine. They should have left it alone and extended the rail line.

That doesn’t benefit the highway contractors that own GDOT though.

[rrampage]

Originally Posted by primaltech

Unlike Gwinnett/Cobb, there are no railroad corridors at all in Fulton County north of Atlanta. (Or in Forsyth County.) So they're never going to get a proper commuter or regional rail up there. Which was why it was perfect that Fulton happens to be a MARTA county, and happens to have a heavy rail line already along GA-400. Simply extending that north up to Windward Pkwy at the north end of the county, with park and ride stations, would have served N Fulton (and Forsyth) commuters, with a one-seat train ride to the ATL airport, Downtown with all its regional amenities, and Midtown, Buckhead and Perimeter, with all their tons of jobs and shopping malls and all that. Plus the Pill Hill/Medical Center area with those hospitals. Plus all the reverse commuters heading to jobs in Alpharetta, and Avalon and such.

It's just so stupid to pass that up. So utterly, completely dumb. Especially since they've paid the damn MARTA tax since forever. Do they not want actual quality rapid rail service in return for their taxes and participation in MARTA?

MARTA rail was designed and intended from the outset as a 'hybrid' system, with the ideal mix of in-town subway and suburban park&ride commuter rail, and with all lines heading downtown, minimizing the need for transfers.

The BRT from N Springs to Windward is I guess better than nothing, but the forced transfers and other delays will kill ridership. Especially since its opening will coincide (or probably come after) those 4 new lanes of managed Peach Pass (Lexus) lanes, which everyone up there will use. GA-400 is going to be essentially doubling its vehicle capacity, in an ugly concrete overpass monstrosity. The highway was fine. They should have left it alone and extended the rail line.

We'll see how it unfolds. It's hard to make long range predictions.

[Atlanta-Kid]

Marta is a great resource for business
Literally- go to the North- trains connect the big metros
Imagine Atlanta with that resource
The obvious problem with Atlanta- is that its a big town with big city energy
The Metro stretches 30 miles in each direction
And everyone in the metro basically commutes to the center every single day
not to mention- travelers- and truck drivers
Have Marta stretch to each corner of the metro and you have a unified network
When you connect far out places- you create room for growth

[rrampage]

Originally Posted by Atlanta-Kid

Marta is a great resource for business
Literally- go to the North- trains connect the big metros
Imagine Atlanta with that resource
The obvious problem with Atlanta- is that its a big town with big city energy
The Metro stretches 30 miles in each direction
And everyone in the metro basically commutes to the center every single day
not to mention- travelers- and truck drivers
Have Marta stretch to each corner of the metro and you have a unified network
When you connect far out places- you create room for growth

Being a regional hub for nearly everything possible certainly does give the illusion of the Atlanta area being bigger than it really is. I cannot imagine the traffic situation with a mere 10% increase in population for the metro area. The infrastructure situation is something that looms large.

[primaltech]

I still think Atlanta should drop everything else, and just do this:

https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/i...mmuter-transit

A 15-min frequency regional passenger rail system, with a bunch of lines going everywhere, covering Cobb and Gwinnett, and potentially connecting out to Athens.

That plus extending the Red line north up to Windward, the Blue line west to Six Flags, a Krog St infill station, and a few other things- and that would completely change that region, and open it up for a lot of transit oriented growth and lifestyles.

Why think small when you could think big.

[rrampage]

Originally Posted by primaltech

I still think Atlanta should drop everything else, and just do this:

https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/i...mmuter-transit

A 15-min frequency regional passenger rail system, with a bunch of lines going everywhere, covering Cobb and Gwinnett, and potentially connecting out to Athens.

That plus extending the Red line north up to Windward, the Blue line west to Six Flags, a Krog St infill station, and a few other things- and that would completely change that region, and open it up for a lot of transit oriented growth and lifestyles.

Why think small when you could think big.

If you can think big while minimizing the risk of the investments, I say go for it. There is certainly a lot that would have to be examined. It's very hard to project anything that is too far out in the future. Never say never.

Of course, we have flying drones nowadays lol.