Why there is no Marta in Cobb or Gwinnett (Atlanta: 2015, hotel)

[Born 2 Roll]

Originally Posted by JoeJunior

The real reason that Cobb County and Gwinnett County never received MARTA is because the voters there don't want it. They don't want to ride buses and heavy rail to work.

Both counties are very spread out and automobiles are the mode of transportation. Housing is extremely low density.

Another issue is that all the jobs in the city are spread out--and not in small areas. There's not enough money to put heavy rail everywhere.

I'm not going to mention that they don't want the crime that comes with MARTA. Look what's happened to the two fabulous luxury malls in Buckhead that have MARTA.

Those are really good points stating that the real reason that Cobb and Gwinnett counties never received MARTA is because the voters in those counties don’t want it and don’t want to ride buses and heavy rail to work.

Those are also really good points saying that jobs in the city (the Atlanta metropolitan area) are spread out over a large area, making it financially impossible to build rail to connect those spread out jobs.

And though MARTA does bring people without vehicles to the Lenox Square/Phipps Plaza area (primarily underage youths who cannot legally drive and/or don’t have access to cars), the public safety challenges that upscale Buckhead malls like Lenox Square and Phipps Plaza malls are experiencing seem to have much more to do with factors like being located at the geographical center of a highly socioeconomically diverse large major metropolitan area of more than 6 million residents during an era when bricks-and-mortar retail outlets everywhere (including and especially dated bricks-and-mortar retail outlets like traditional enclosed regional shopping malls) often are experiencing existential challenges than with being accessible by heavy rail transit.

Most of the serious crime (including violent crime and major thefts) that is occurring at upscale malls like Lenox Square and Phipps Plaza is being committed with the use of private automobiles in a large major metropolitan area with a history of higher-than-average crime rates over some stretches of time.

Originally Posted by SEAandATL

Dunwoody/Perimeter seems to be an exception.

Unfortunately, Perimeter Mall and the Perimeter Center/Dunwoody area seems to be no exception and is currently experiencing crime and public safety issues of its own… Crime and public safety issues that are being committed almost completely with the use of private automobiles, if only simply because public transit most often makes for a bad and impractical getaway vehicle for criminals after committing serious crimes.

Third arrest made in Perimeter Mall shooting (FOX 5 Atlanta, 3 March 2023)

2 arrested in Perimeter Mall shooting, victim still recovering (FOX 5 Atlanta, 10 January 2023)

Dunwoody residents fear crime spike after two shootings (Rough Draft Atlanta, 14 February 2023)


All of the enclosed regional shopping malls that are still open and operating in the Atlanta area as of 2023 have issues with crime at various times, including those malls not located on and/or near a rail transit line and/or those malls not immediately located in an economically disadvantaged neighborhood.

And regardless of rail transit access, the issues with crime that those malls have always involve the use of a private automobile before and/or after the criminal act (and/or acts) has been committed.

[SEAandATL]

Originally Posted by primaltech

Not that any Cobb rail seems ever likely to ever happen, but I always liked the idea of a light rail along I-75, with a park & ride end of the line station, maybe around Windy Hill or somewhere around there, and then a nice station integrated into the Battery/Truist stadium area, a station at Howell Mill, a nicely integrated station in that sub-surface parking deck area at Atlantic Station, and then it tunnels under the Connector, and the final station at Arts Center being a light rail underground platform at that existing station, perpendicular to the Red/Gold heavy rail lines, enabling transfers in either direction, without having to leave the Arts Center underground station area. And Arts Center would have TOD towers built on top of it.

Then that doesn't interfere with the operation of the existing Red/Gold line, and you have one simple transfer, in either a north or a south direction. People riding in from Cobb and heading to the airport or Downtown or Buckhead, would have one, simple, easy transfer, from rail line to rail line. And no transfer if they're heading to Midtown. And then same thing for the people who live in the city and are trying to get out to a Braves game.

Gwinnett and North Fulton are a bit different because of the Gold and Red lines, already at their doorstep and pointing their way. Extending the heavy rail along their respective freeway corridors, and minimizing mode transfers, makes the most sense there.

And of course none of these 3 things seem likely to ever happen, and no regional/commuter rail either, because Georgia is a stupid place.

It is Marjorie Taylor Greene's state and a reflection of people who vote for the likes of her. Unfortunately no matter where I move to I'll always be a Georgia boy and I've experienced being laughed at just for being from here, especially in California and Florida. It's like the saying goes, you can take me out of Georgia but unfortunately you can't take the Georgia out of me.

[Born 2 Roll]

Originally Posted by SEAandATL

It is Marjorie Taylor Greene's state and a reflection of people who vote for the likes of her. Unfortunately no matter where I move to I'll always be a Georgia boy and I've experienced being laughed at just for being from here, especially in California and Florida. It's like the saying goes, you can take me out of Georgia but unfortunately you can't take the Georgia out of me.

Lol. With the very wild reputation that the state has, Florida seems to have no credibility to laugh about someone being from Georgia.

California doesn’t seem to have much credibility to laugh about someone being from Georgia either, especially when so many of California’s residents have been fleeing the state in droves over the past few years, including to a state like Georgia.

[DaBears02]

Originally Posted by SEAandATL

It is Marjorie Taylor Greene's state and a reflection of people who vote for the likes of her. Unfortunately no matter where I move to I'll always be a Georgia boy and I've experienced being laughed at just for being from here, especially in California and Florida. It's like the saying goes, you can take me out of Georgia but unfortunately you can't take the Georgia out of me.

Those people are the worst. For people who claim to be so liberal and inclusive they seem extremely closed minded when you say you’re from a red state, even if the area you’re from is blue.

[aries4118]

Originally Posted by DaBears02

Those people are the worst. For people who claim to be so liberal and inclusive they seem extremely closed minded when you say you’re from a red state, even if the area you’re from is blue.

Spot on.

[SEAandATL]

Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll

Lol. With the very wild reputation that the state has, Florida seems to have no credibility to laugh about someone being from Georgia.

California doesn’t seem to have much credibility to laugh about someone being from Georgia either, especially when so many of California’s residents have been fleeing the state in droves over the past few years, including to a state like Georgia.

Floridians talk like Georgia is like a third-world country, while everything is perfect in Florida with the smooth roads without potholes and the Brightline train gave them bragging rights. Meanwhile guests from there that stay in our vacation home up in the mountains have a tendency to complain about everything not being "perfect". Not all Floridians of course but quite a bit of them.

Originally Posted by DaBears02

Those people are the worst. For people who claim to be so liberal and inclusive they seem extremely closed minded when you say you’re from a red state, even if the area you’re from is blue.

Politics aside it's more of a cultural thing. They look at Georgia, especially Atlanta as ghetto or "the other side of the railroad tracks". This was in San Diego where many were the preppy/yuppy types. This was also another time back in the late 90's before Atlanta became popular and "hip". Californians also tend to view the other 49 states the same way that Americans as a whole view other countries of the world.

[aries4118]

Originally Posted by SEAandATL

Floridians talk like Georgia is like a third-world country, while everything is perfect in Florida with the smooth roads without potholes and the Brightline train gave them bragging rights. Meanwhile guests from there that stay in our vacation home up in the mountains have a tendency to complain about everything not being "perfect". Not all Floridians of course but quite a bit of them.



Politics aside it's more of a cultural thing. They look at Georgia, especially Atlanta as ghetto or "the other side of the railroad tracks". This was in San Diego where many were the preppy/yuppy types. This was also another time back in the late 90's before Atlanta became popular and "hip". Californians also tend to view the other 49 states the same way that Americans as a whole view other countries of the world.

Wait, Floridians talk down on Georgia/Georgians?

As if. If anything, it was/is the other way around—considering the extreme cheese factor that is Florida.

[aries4118]

Originally Posted by SEAandATL

…


Politics aside it's more of a cultural thing. They look at Georgia, especially Atlanta as ghetto or "the other side of the railroad tracks". This was in San Diego where many were the preppy/yuppy types. This was also another time back in the late 90's before Atlanta became popular and "hip". Californians also tend to view the other 49 states the same way that Americans as a whole view other countries of the world.

Ah, I see now. This was over 20 years ago.

Still though, what I said above applied in the mid/late 90s.

[rickms55]

Where It All Went Wrong

The 1965 and 1971 votes against MARTA by residents of Cobb, Clayton, and Gwinnett weren’t votes about transportation. They were referendums on race. Specifically, they were believed to be about keeping the races apart. Consider the suburbanites voting back then. The formerly rural, outlying counties had exploded with an astonishing exodus of white people fleeing the city as the black population swelled during the civil rights era. This mass migration came at a time when Atlanta was known through its public relations bluster as “The City Too Busy to Hate.”

The 1960 census counted approximately 300,000 white residents in Atlanta. From 1960 to 1980, around 160,000 whites left the city—Atlanta’s white population was cut in half over two decades, says Kevin M. Kruse, the Princeton professor who wrote White Flight: Atlanta and the Making of Modern Conservatism. Kruse notes that skeptics suggested Atlanta’s slogan should have been “The City Too Busy Moving to Hate.” “Racial concerns trumped everything else,” Kruse says. “The more you think about it, Atlanta’s transportation infrastructure was designed as much to keep people apart as to bring people together.”

BTW, The book mentioned is a really great read.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by SEAandATL

It is Marjorie Taylor Greene's state and a reflection of people who vote for the likes of her. Unfortunately no matter where I move to I'll always be a Georgia boy and I've experienced being laughed at just for being from here, especially in California and Florida. It's like the saying goes, you can take me out of Georgia but unfortunately you can't take the Georgia out of me.

It could be worse. You could actually be in Hank "tip Guam over" Johnson's district!