Phipps plaza, Lenox mall, streets of buckhead, midtown mile (Atlanta: salon, real estate)

[atlantaATL]

Originally Posted by BringBackCobain

SOB will bring Atlanta to a new level in terms of competing with other international cities. The stores locating in SOB are only in cities like Paris, NYC, L.A. It is really great for the city. Maybe celebrities (not rappers) will go to Buckhead if they have to be in atlanta for some reason. We will know the city has changed if we see Lindsay Lohan or Julia Roberts shopping in Buckhead.

Midtown Mile is also great. It will put more pressure for Downtown to develop as it keeps getting better.

The only thing Atlanta is lacking is a 24 hour, vibrant, safe, clean downtown. I think its coming though (even though they have been saying this for decades). GSU is moving in from the east, Castleberry Hill from the SOuthwest, Centennial Park from the west, Midtown from the North. Downtown HAS to become hot soon. the only area standing in the way is... sigh, five points. If we could only give 5 points to GSU.

rappers are celebs just as much as julia is so they will be there too

[Galounger]

Originally Posted by BringBackCobain

SOB will bring Atlanta to a new level in terms of competing with other international cities. The stores locating in SOB are only in cities like Paris, NYC, L.A. It is really great for the city. Maybe celebrities (not rappers) will go to Buckhead if they have to be in atlanta for some reason. We will know the city has changed if we see Lindsay Lohan or Julia Roberts shopping in Buckhead.

Midtown Mile is also great. It will put more pressure for Downtown to develop as it keeps getting better.

The only thing Atlanta is lacking is a 24 hour, vibrant, safe, clean downtown. I think its coming though (even though they have been saying this for decades). GSU is moving in from the east, Castleberry Hill from the SOuthwest, Centennial Park from the west, Midtown from the North. Downtown HAS to become hot soon. the only area standing in the way is... sigh, five points. If we could only give 5 points to GSU.

You might not have known but successful rappers for a long time now have been shopping in Beverly Hills, 5th Avenue NYC, High Street London, and plenty of other top level retail districts so what makes you think they will or should stay away from Streets Of Buckhead?

[Iconographer]

Originally Posted by Galounger

You might not have known but successful rappers for a long time now have been shopping in Beverly Hills, 5th Avenue NYC, High Street London, and plenty of other top level retail districts so what makes you think they will or should stay away from Streets Of Buckhead?

Too right; conspicuous consumption is part of the culture.

[GF72]

Originally Posted by BringBackCobain

South Downtown (i.e. the Government District) is pretty bleak right now. I drove around there recently and it was pretty blighted. GF72, dont you think that development in Midtown will spill southward into downtown?

The Turner Field area (Summerhill, Pittsburgh) and the Vine City areas are also very distressed. It will take decades for those to improve.

No, I don't think development in Midtown will spill south on any significant level. Midtown is the southern edge of the "wealthy area" which, south to north, goes Midtown, Buckhead, Perimeter, North Point (and the surrounding suburbs). Development in Midtown will be northern focused to meet with Buckhead. High end development won't go south because their target audience doesn't exist, from the I75/I85 split all the way up to Forsyth County is a solid block of $100,000+ income households, so development is going to be focused in the four northern hubs.

On the southern side, there is some upper middle class in Fayette County but that's it. If Clayton County and the College Park/East Point/etc. area changed demographics to upper middle class, then Downtown would suddenly jump up the ladder. At this point, the wealth is up north, and no one is going to drive all the way downtown when they can go to Buckhead, Perimeter, etc. Midtown is currently the "bottom end" for that class of development.

[BringBackCobain]

Originally Posted by GF72

No, I don't think development in Midtown will spill south on any significant level. Midtown is the southern edge of the "wealthy area" which, south to north, goes Midtown, Buckhead, Perimeter, North Point (and the surrounding suburbs). Development in Midtown will be northern focused to meet with Buckhead. High end development won't go south because their target audience doesn't exist, from the I75/I85 split all the way up to Forsyth County is a solid block of $100,000+ income households, so development is going to be focused in the four northern hubs.

On the southern side, there is some upper middle class in Fayette County but that's it. If Clayton County and the College Park/East Point/etc. area changed demographics to upper middle class, then Downtown would suddenly jump up the ladder. At this point, the wealth is up north, and no one is going to drive all the way downtown when they can go to Buckhead, Perimeter, etc. Midtown is currently the "bottom end" for that class of development.

Interesting point... BUT it does not explain the fact that Midtown used to be a distressed part of town, even as recently as the 80's and it was not that different from downtown. When Colony Scquare was built, everyone thought the developers were crazy cause of the blight in the area.

[GF72]

Originally Posted by BringBackCobain

Interesting point... BUT it does not explain the fact that Midtown used to be a distressed part of town, even as recently as the 80's and it was not that different from downtown. When Colony Scquare was built, everyone thought the developers were crazy cause of the blight in the area.

The 80's was a long time ago, back then Alpharetta and Johns Creek were farmland, not the wealthy suburbs they are today.

Midtown began its upward climb in 1987, with the completion of the IBM Tower. During the 90's, north Fulton developed into the upper-middle class suburbia it is today, and Midtown, Buckhead, and Perimeter all got boosted along with it.

And as commercial midtown boomed in the 90's and 00's, people started renovating the residential midtown neighborhoods. The gay community really spearheaded that movement, they were the only ones brave enough to jump into a blighted urban area.

[J2rescue]

Originally Posted by GF72

No, I don't think development in Midtown will spill south on any significant level. Midtown is the southern edge of the "wealthy area" which, south to north, goes Midtown, Buckhead, Perimeter, North Point (and the surrounding suburbs). Development in Midtown will be northern focused to meet with Buckhead. High end development won't go south because their target audience doesn't exist, from the I75/I85 split all the way up to Forsyth County is a solid block of $100,000+ income households, so development is going to be focused in the four northern hubs.

On the southern side, there is some upper middle class in Fayette County but that's it. If Clayton County and the College Park/East Point/etc. area changed demographics to upper middle class, then Downtown would suddenly jump up the ladder. At this point, the wealth is up north, and no one is going to drive all the way downtown when they can go to Buckhead, Perimeter, etc. Midtown is currently the "bottom end" for that class of development.

I agree that Midtown development will not spill southward because Midtown is not nearly developed enough to have "spillage". There is enough developable land in the form of parking lots and under-used buildings to build another Midtown.

But Downtown already is seeing development on its own and neighborhoods south of Midtown are attracting high income individuals.

Your idea of all "high end" development being linked to some wealth chain is a little strange. The target audience for high end Midtown development is Midtown. It has little to do with Forsyth, Perimeter or even Buckhead.

[GF72]

Originally Posted by J2rescue

I agree that Midtown development will not spill southward because Midtown is not nearly developed enough to have "spillage". There is enough developable land in the form of parking lots and under-used buildings to build another Midtown.

But Downtown already is seeing development on its own and neighborhoods south of Midtown are attracting high income individuals.

Your idea of all "high end" development being linked to some wealth chain is a little strange. The target audience for high end Midtown development is Midtown. It has little to do with Forsyth, Perimeter or even Buckhead.

It is linked. You think everyone who works in Midtown is from Midtown? Lots of high wealth in Alpharetta allows the building of high-end office towers in Midtown for them to commute to, which leads to high-end residential development in Midtown to complement the office space, which leads to high end commercial services like retail, as the whole area gets more in demand, more people move to Alpharetta, and the process starts keeps going. An area cannot depend on itself alone - high density urban planning just doesn't work like that. It's like playing Simcity and expecting to get skyscrapers and condo towers just cause you zoned it high-density - you need to create a whole system of suburbs and demand before you can accomplish that.

[J2rescue]

Originally Posted by GF72

It is linked. You think everyone who works in Midtown is from Midtown? Lots of high wealth in Alpharetta allows the building of high-end office towers in Midtown for them to commute to, which leads to high-end residential development in Midtown to complement the office space, which leads to high end commercial services like retail, as the whole area gets more in demand, more people move to Alpharetta, and the process starts keeps going. An area cannot depend on itself alone - high density urban planning just doesn't work like that. It's like playing Simcity and expecting to get skyscrapers and condo towers just cause you zoned it high-density - you need to create a whole system of suburbs and demand before you can accomplish that.

Office towers are built in Midtown because wealthy people live in suburban city 20 miles away? That surely isn't urban planning. Its bizarre.

No I don't think everyone who works in Midtown lives in Midtown and I certainly don't think they all live in Alpharetta. It is true however that the job centers in the city have easily the highest percentage of people living and working in the same place.

Midtown workers could also commute from Grant Park, Buckhead, Douglasville, Gwinnett county or anywhere they choose to live for that matter.

Back to the thread topic.... when and if Midtown attracts high end retail it will be because retailers believe the immediate surrounding area has an appropriate population and income level to support it.

[ericsonga]

Originally Posted by GF72

It is linked. You think everyone who works in Midtown is from Midtown? Lots of high wealth in Alpharetta allows the building of high-end office towers in Midtown for them to commute to, which leads to high-end residential development in Midtown to complement the office space, which leads to high end commercial services like retail, as the whole area gets more in demand, more people move to Alpharetta, and the process starts keeps going. An area cannot depend on itself alone - high density urban planning just doesn't work like that. It's like playing Simcity and expecting to get skyscrapers and condo towers just cause you zoned it high-density - you need to create a whole system of suburbs and demand before you can accomplish that.

FINALLY!
I knew I would see the day when people would start quoting SimCity! FRIGGIN AWESOME! hehehe