Which Atlanta Mall(s) should be shut down? (Roswell, Smyrna: apartment, condos)

[grindin]

Originally Posted by aries4118

Howevah, Lenox/Phipps are close to Cumberland as well...but Cumberland does well.

Like I said before...I think Northlake should try to be like Cumberland.

There is less competition in the area that Cumberland serves for its demographics compared to Northlake. Cumberland gets the traffic from the westside, South Cobb, etc. It also has visibility from the freeway compared to Northlake, which can be difficult to get to during rush hour. Gwinnett Place serves a similar demo to Northlake to the NE. Gwinnett Place may be long past its glory days, but it's not dead and has somewhat managed to adapt to area changes, and its a much larger mall with more options. North DeKalb is close enough to Northlake to compete, but has marketed itself as a discounters mall, so that's more potential traffic siphoned away (not that North DeKalb is doing any better). So Northlake is screwed on having to compete with nearby malls either Class A (Lenox/Phipps) or Class B (Gwinnett Place) or even Class C (N. DeKalb), because it doesn't know it's "place" in dealing with the surrounding malls. Add to the trend of enclosed malls not being the destinations they once were plus an ailing economy, Northlake has (and will for the forseeable future) a difficult task to stand out. I'd even say that Stonecrest is indirect competion for the mall. Even if it is quite far out from this area, I can see it snatching a lot of people away who'd otherwise go to Northlake.

I just think that Northlake is going the way of many of the smaller enclosed malls in this country and struggling to find its place. DeKalb is somewhat "overmalled" (back in the 60s when DeKalb was developing, few envisioned that Metro Atlanta would become so spread out), so it's suffering. Again, given the trend of the decline of the enclosed mall, I don't even think that Northlake would benefit from simply being remodeled.

[aries4118]

Originally Posted by grindin

There is less competition in the area that Cumberland serves for its demographics compared to Northlake. Cumberland gets the traffic from the westside, South Cobb, etc. It also has visibility from the freeway compared to Northlake, which can be difficult to get to during rush hour. Gwinnett Place serves a similar demo to Northlake to the NE. Gwinnett Place may be long past its glory days, but it's not dead and has somewhat managed to adapt to area changes, and its a much larger mall with more options. North DeKalb is close enough to Northlake to compete, but has marketed itself as a discounters mall, so that's more potential traffic siphoned away (not that North DeKalb is doing any better). So Northlake is screwed on having to compete with nearby malls either Class A (Lenox/Phipps) or Class B (Gwinnett Place) or even Class C (N. DeKalb), because it doesn't know it's "place" in dealing with the surrounding malls. Add to the trend of enclosed malls not being the destinations they once were plus an ailing economy, Northlake has (and will for the forseeable future) a difficult task to stand out. I'd even say that Stonecrest is indirect competion for the mall. Even if it is quite far out from this area, I can see it snatching a lot of people away who'd otherwise go to Northlake.

I just think that Northlake is going the way of many of the smaller enclosed malls in this country and struggling to find its place. DeKalb is somewhat "overmalled" (back in the 60s when DeKalb was developing, few envisioned that Metro Atlanta would become so spread out), so it's suffering. Again, given the trend of the decline of the enclosed mall, I don't even think that Northlake would benefit from simply being remodeled.

I disagree.

I think Northlake can be the "Cumberland of the Eastside." Here's how:

1. The Tucker/South Chamblee-Doraville/North Stone Mountain/Decatur areas can serve the same purpose that Smyrna/Mableton do for Cumberland.

2. The Lakeside/Oak Grove/Emory area can be like the Vinings for Northlake.

3. Northlake can pull from Central/South-Central DeKalb just like Cumberland pulls from Southwest Atlanta.


I think the problem is just marketing and a lack of retrofitting/remodeling. If Northlake remodeled and added the nice restaurants, etc. (and other things) like Perimeter and Cumberland did, people in the area would definitely support Northlake. There is a lot of money and affluence in that area.

Moreover, it is North DeKalb Mall that should go the power center route (and hopefully with a Costco!).

And Gwinnett Place could also fill a niche as an Asian/Korean/Indian "Stonecrest". So many Asians (including huge amounts of Koreans) and Indians live in West Gwinnett/Duluth, Eastern North Fulton/Johns Creek, and the Parkview/Lilburn area. Having the MegaMart come in is such a smart move. The next step should an all Bollywood Movie Theatre Complex. Gwinnett Place would still keep the traditional American retailers (Macy's, Sears, Belk, Gap, American Eagle, Abercromie, etc.).

[grindin]

Originally Posted by aries4118

I disagree.

I think Northlake can be the "Cumberland of the Eastside." Here's how:

1. The Tucker/South Chamblee-Doraville/North Stone Mountain/Decatur areas can serve the same purpose that Smyrna/Mableton do for Cumberland.

2. The Lakeside/Oak Grove/Emory area can be like the Vinings for Northlake.

3. Northlake can pull from Central/South-Central DeKalb just like Cumberland pulls from Southwest Atlanta.

I'd think Central & (especially) South DeKalb would graviate more towards Stonecrest. JMNSHO. LOL. I know we'll have to respectfully agree to disagree on this. Who knows what'll happen within the next few years? Maybe it'll be 'in' to have enclosed malls again, maybe not. But Northlake as it stands now won't survive for long if there are no revitilzation plans. And there will be another Walmart Supercenter ITP, mark my words.

And Gwinnett Place could also fill a niche as an Asian/Korean/Indian "Stonecrest". So many Asians (including huge amounts of Koreans) and Indians live in West Gwinnett/Duluth, Eastern North Fulton/Johns Creek, and the Parkview/Lilburn area. Having the MegaMart come in is such a smart move. The next step should an all Bollywood Movie Theatre Complex. Gwinnett Place would still keep the traditional American retailers (Macy's, Sears, Belk, Gap, American Eagle, Abercromie, etc.).

I think this would be a good idea, but do you think the South Asian population would be large enough to support a Bollywood theater?

[JPD]

I think the Costco deal at North Dekalb has been shelved. They weren't able to get everything they wanted out of the deal (like a gas station).

Northlake is struggling, but I don't think they're going anywhere. They still have their three original anchors (Macy's, formerly Davison's, JC Penney, Sears). Kohl's recently moved into the Parisian location. They are owned by Simon Malls. I agree they need to get a couple decent restaurants and better small retailers in order to attract local residents (area homeowners), who have money to spend. As it is now, they attract less affluent shoppers.

The area surrounding the mall is rapidly being redeveloped (the long-abandoned movie theater recently reopened as a Movie Tavern, a higher end apartment/condo development is being built right next to the mall, the Doubletree Hotel was recently remodeled and a Marlow's Tavern, which is wildly popular, has opened. The neighborhood organization is extremely active, and have been successful in getting the county to pay for their streetscape beautification, and have worked with Trees Atlanta to plant dozens of trees along the 285 ramps. They've also been putting a lot of pressure on the mall management. Prior to the economic collapse there were plans for the Siemons plant to be redeveloped into a live/work developement. I think all of those factors suggest that the mall will have to either shape up or ship out, and I don't think Simon Malls wants to let go of that property. Unfortunately, not much can happen until the economy is in better shape. But when that happens, good things are likely to happen at Northlake.

[aries4118]

Originally Posted by grindin

I'd think Central & (especially) South DeKalb would graviate more towards Stonecrest. JMNSHO. LOL. I know we'll have to respectfully agree to disagree on this. Who knows what'll happen within the next few years? Maybe it'll be 'in' to have enclosed malls again, maybe not. But Northlake as it stands now won't survive for long if there are no revitilzation plans. And there will be another Walmart Supercenter ITP, mark my words.




I think this would be a good idea, but do you think the South Asian population would be large enough to support a Bollywood theater?

The Bollywood Theatre Complex would serve the South Asian population, but also would draw Non-South Asians as well. It would be "cultural draw/option" for Non-South Asians in the Metro Area.

[aries4118]

Originally Posted by JPD

I think the Costco deal at North Dekalb has been shelved. They weren't able to get everything they wanted out of the deal (like a gas station).

Northlake is struggling, but I don't think they're going anywhere. They still have their three original anchors (Macy's, formerly Davison's, JC Penney, Sears). Kohl's recently moved into the Parisian location. They are owned by Simon Malls. I agree they need to get a couple decent restaurants and better small retailers in order to attract local residents (area homeowners), who have money to spend. As it is now, they attract less affluent shoppers.

The area surrounding the mall is rapidly being redeveloped (the long-abandoned movie theater recently reopened as a Movie Tavern, a higher end apartment/condo development is being built right next to the mall, the Doubletree Hotel was recently remodeled and a Marlow's Tavern, which is wildly popular, has opened. The neighborhood organization is extremely active, and have been successful in getting the county to pay for their streetscape beautification, and have worked with Trees Atlanta to plant dozens of trees along the 285 ramps. They've also been putting a lot of pressure on the mall management. Prior to the economic collapse there were plans for the Siemons plant to be redeveloped into a live/work developement. I think all of those factors suggest that the mall will have to either shape up or ship out, and I don't think Simon Malls wants to let go of that property. Unfortunately, not much can happen until the economy is in better shape. But when that happens, good things are likely to happen at Northlake.

Yep...

[JPD]

Originally Posted by aries4118

Yep...

I forgot to mention that the Northlake library was recently renovated and expanded. That's another big plus for the area.

It's not all improvements, though. Several places in the area have closed, such as Chili's and Steak and Ale (both are still empty) and the Olive Garden, which has been replaced by an "upscale nightclub" that the neighborhood does not support.

Here's the website for the Northlake Community Alliance:

NCA, Inc. - Northlake Community Alliance

[Saintmarks]

A trend here in DFW has been for outdoor malls, one opened a couple of years back, one is slated to open this summer and another is on the drawing boards. Think Avenues at Cobb with a Macy's, Sears and Dillards in the mix, a couple of the big boxes and offices and condos/apartments above the retail. I could see something like this doing well in Atlanta, not as another mall added to the mix, but a redo of an aging mall. Northlake would be prime.

I would have to visit Northlake again to envision its layout, but the idea would be to leave the big anchors, raise the rest of the mall and build an open air town center with streets around the big anchors. Put some offices and loft apartments over the stores and you have a great live/work/play area that would have enough difference from the rest of the malls to make it more of a destination again.

[JPD]

Originally Posted by Saintmarks

A trend here in DFW has been for outdoor malls, one opened a couple of years back, one is slated to open this summer and another is on the drawing boards. Think Avenues at Cobb with a Macy's, Sears and Dillards in the mix, a couple of the big boxes and offices and condos/apartments above the retail. I could see something like this doing well in Atlanta, not as another mall added to the mix, but a redo of an aging mall. Northlake would be prime.

I would have to visit Northlake again to envision its layout, but the idea would be to leave the big anchors, raise the rest of the mall and build an open air town center with streets around the big anchors. Put some offices and loft apartments over the stores and you have a great live/work/play area that would have enough difference from the rest of the malls to make it more of a destination again.

Interesting idea. This concept is sort of like what North Dekalb had in mind back when the Costco deal was still in play.

inDECATUR: North DeKalb Mall close to bringing in Costco, after all

[LovinDecatur]

Originally Posted by Saintmarks

A trend here in DFW has been for outdoor malls, one opened a couple of years back, one is slated to open this summer and another is on the drawing boards. Think Avenues at Cobb with a Macy's, Sears and Dillards in the mix, a couple of the big boxes and offices and condos/apartments above the retail. I could see something like this doing well in Atlanta, not as another mall added to the mix, but a redo of an aging mall. Northlake would be prime.

I would have to visit Northlake again to envision its layout, but the idea would be to leave the big anchors, raise the rest of the mall and build an open air town center with streets around the big anchors. Put some offices and loft apartments over the stores and you have a great live/work/play area that would have enough difference from the rest of the malls to make it more of a destination again.

What I would really like to see is NL Mall more integrated into the shopping areas that surround it: Northlake Festival, Briarcliff Village and Sports Authority Plaza. Done right, you could really have something special there...a shopping mecca that bridges Tucker, North Decatur and NE Atlanta. The county is already laying out big $$$ for the Northlake Streetscape.