A little Austin history...the 1966 University of Texas shootings...44 years ago this month

[inthecut]

Originally Posted by RevMen

Certainly not my intention to downplay either event, but the Kent State shootings were so tragic because the shooters were our own armed forces.

Interesting that Kent State comes up in this thread. Saturday night I saw one of my favorite bands Ween at Stubb's, and they played CSN&Y's Ohio as they sometimes do. It made me realize that people remain more aware of the Kent State shootings than other similar events at that time because of that song. A crowd composed of people who, for the most part, hadn't even been born in 1970 were singing along with the band and it's probably safe to say a large number of them learned about the event through the song.

Ok, now you get my amateur rock historian story of how "Ohio" was written....David Crosby was trying to get Neil Young involved in benefits for causes, and could never get NY on board...one day, he picked up the issue of Life magazine with the famous pics of the shootings, tossed it in Youngs lap, and said, here, write a song about this....he did, and I believe they recorded it in two days...pretty much a verbatim account of what happened from the article...but with blistering guitar work, and the constant pleading of "four dead"......over and over, until it rips through the cranium, which was its intention!


YouTube - Ohio-CSNY

There IS a connection between the two events..both shooters were members of our armed forces, taught to kill..and both fired on unarmed, innocent civilians....quite simply, when you are taught to kill, and handed a gun, people will die, sometimes in unforeseen ways, ala Whitman and the Ohio national Guard, but thats what they were trained to do, whether they go bonkers, or receive orders to shoot from their CO, ala Kent State...

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by CptnRn

I found this 25 minute video of the news program reporting on the shooting later that day. It includes an interview with Mr. Allen Crum. the Wiki indicates his name is spelled Allen Crum. The APD description of events indicated that Whitman was aiming his rifle at Crum when Officer Martinez shot him. There were a lot of hero's there that day, including civilians who helped drag some of Whitman's victims to shelter.

Thanks for posting this, CptnRn! I had not checked this thread in a few days as I have been mostly off-line. I had never seen it before and it was very interesting.

You are right (and more on this in below) there were a lot of heroes that day, both among law enforcement and civilians.

Something I found noteable (in looking/listening) to this clip and a couple of others, is the inclusion/absence of certain names in re-counting the incident as to those who had a direct hand in going out onto the tower deck and taking Whitman down. For instance...

In the one you provided, the Austin police chief during the initial press conference mentioned officers Martinez and Day, as well as civilian Allen Crum. However, no mention was given of officer Houston McCoy. My guess is that, at the time it was held, details were still very sketchy as to exactly who were present at the final confrontation.

But then, here is something I found which excludes Crum altogether. It was a much more recent "dramatization" in which Day is interviewed as to his own recollections of the event. The re-creation makes it appear as if only the three officers were involved. Day himself makes no mention of Crum.

To be honest, my guess is that any mention Day may have made of Crum was intentionally edited out/not included. To wit, the producers of this particular program had a certain agenda and did not want to credit action by armed civilians.

I just don't know any other way to explain it. After all, I have seen interviews with both Martinez and McCoy (in another documentary...which I am trying to locate as to relevant parts) where each speak of Crum's role, but make no mention of Day as to actually being on the deck itself (although definitely state he bravely burst into the room near the observation deck entry -- not knowing if Whitman was in there or not -- and discovered the bodies of those visitors the sniper had initially shot on his way to the deck itself).

Here is the one in question:


YouTube - Charles Whitman (Part 1 of 2)


Anyway, these are just a few thoughts. As it is, to come back to what you say about credit for all those who performed so courageously that day, here is a YouTube video (in two parts) of a ceremony in 2007 honoring all. It also answered by question of whatever happened to Allen Crum (he is now deceased). Many of those who took direct part were present, as are the families of the ones honored posthumously for their heroism.



YouTube - Honoring those who stopped Charles Whitman pt. 1


YouTube - Honoring those who stopped Charles Whitman pt. 2

[Willsson]

A school mate of mine had an older brother attending UT. By this time I think the brother was married and living in Austin... and that day was working in the Co-Op. The school mate and I had been neighbors since grade school and would be seniors in high school that year. I was at their house that afternoon, his mom was fairly tense.

There was no CNN in those days, just radios, and telephones with copper wires. Finally the call came, he was safe.

Just occurs to me, the guy later worked in the defense dept in DC... even during the DC sniper time.

[electricninja]

Originally Posted by TexasReb

I sure don't want to turn this thread into a debate on the issue of gun-control, but I do have to say that there was an unmistakeable "sub-theme" which implied strict limits on civilian gun ownership would have gone a long way in preventing such a tragedy.

If you can discuss a gun-related murder thread without mentioning arms control laws, you are a pioneer. I just thank God that Austin is in Texas and not in California.

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by electricninja

If you can discuss a gun-related murder thread without mentioning arms control laws, you are a pioneer. I just thank God that Austin is in Texas and not in California.

Absolutely! I refrained from getting into the "gun control" aspect because the OP requested it not go there as it would have distracted from the main thrust of the thread. Which -- as I read it -- was to respectfully remember and honor.

IMHO, not enough credit can be given to the average, sometimes unnamed, armed Austin citizens who fought back that day, and aided the authorities. Pulling deer rifles out of their vehicles, they decided, by gawd, (I) am going to do SOMETHING.

And something they dad gum sure did. They shot back. They kept Whitman pinned down at intervals enough to allow others to make their way to the tower and finally end the rampage.

The people of Austin epitomized Texas and Texans that day.

[RaleighLass]

Originally Posted by CptnRn

I remember watching this live on TV my freshman year in high school. It was especially shocking then because that kind of thing just didn't happen in those days. There wasn't nearly as much understanding or sensitivity regarding mental illnesses back then. It wasn't socially acceptable to admit you might need help or had a mental problem. If you had a mental problem or depression most people believed you were weak and simply needed to toughen up. It was a different era.

It was almost a relief for most people that the autopsy found Whitman had a brain tumor. That was something physical that we could blame his behavior on. It was much less disconcerting then thinking a mental illness could lead to that kind of behavior.

These were shocking times. First there was Lee Harvey Oswald in 1963, then Whitman in 1966. The next most shocking thing I can remember from that time period occurred less than 4 years later, the Kent State Massacre in 1970, where our own National Guard shot and killed college students for protesting America's invasion of Cambodia as well as many innocent bystanders. Shocking to realize that our own government was the enemy. I knew people who joined the National Guard to avoid going to Vietnam, and here they were shooting students for protesting the Vietnam/Cambodian war.

This whole era was full of things that shocked the American psyche and resulted in major changes to the way we saw ourselves and our country. This is the era when I learned what "outrage" felt like. I don't recall a time that experienced more turmoil until 9/11 came along.

I totally agree with all your points. I also recall these incidents. Although I lived overseas, we watched the newsreels and were equally stunned and sickened. It was a very strange time to come of age in. Kent State is one I will never understand. In Europe, people saw America as a very violent place that talked about freedom yet killed it's student who disagreed with its policies. What Europeans took from the American experiences of this decade was that young people can make a difference, many paid the price. As a result, the youth finally had a voice.

As for the UT shooting, although I was young when this happened, I do remember it. We felt sure the man was mad. But as CpnRn said, little was know or discussed by the public at large, or the media about the issue. It was something to be brushed under the rug, not talked about. There was a lot of shame associated with mental illness. I have an elderly family member who was a nurse here at that time. She said the standard treatment was often shock therapy and lithium. Lobotomies were performed frequently. Your comments about the UT shooter, I never heard about the tumor...how sad for all concerned.

[ScoPro]

My memories of the Whitman shooting

I was there watching it from the NE corner of 21st & Whitis (the Dobie Mall building and the Ransom Center hadn't been built yet), which was a small parking lot at the time. The roomie & I walked out there after eating lunch in the Holiday House which fronted on the Drag. While eating, we had seen the ambulances howling up the street & wondered what was going on.

We heard a few "booms", then somebody yelled at us to get down...that "they" were shooting people from the Tower. Crouching behind a car, we could clearly see Whitman leaning over the parapet taking aim & firing downwards. Most of the time it was a loud "boom", but once in a while we heard a rapid "pop pop pop" - when he used his smaller M1 carbine. We could see the ricochets knocking sprays of stone off the parapet wall.

After a short while we could hear lots of return gunfire coming from nearby buildings & apartments. Hundreds of rounds were going off, so it sounded like a big firefight - similar to the 'Nam newsclips on tv. That's when he ducked down behind the wall and started shooting through the drain spouts. A small Cessna plane made a pass around the Tower, but veered off sharply - that's when Whitman fired at it (supposedly hitting it once).

This went on for a while longer, while some of us speculated that the shooter (s) would jump off the Tower to end it. Then all of a sudden we saw a white flag being waved above the wall. Like a bunch of idiots, hundreds of people, including us, rushed up to the Mall. By the time we got there, the dead & wounded had been removed by brave individuals under fire. There were numerous pools of blood all over the area, and the crowd meticulously avoided stepping in them. Next to the ground floor exit in the west side of the Tower the crowd was pretty thick. Some random sights there: A Daily Texan reporter with his notepad, press card...wearing a steel army helmet...a Texas Ranger holding upright a Thompson submachine gun...a student sitting up on the wall who shouted "Let's hang him when they bring him out" (didn't know he was dead at the time). Unknown to us, the bodies from the Tower were removed from the east entrance,

After an hour or so, there wasn't much to gawk at, and the stunned crowd thinned out, so we went back to our apartment and turned on our tv to watch the news reports. That's when we heard the well-known local news anchor, Paul Bolton, choke up when his grandson's name was read from the list of the dead. Remembering that personal tragedy still brings tears to my eyes. That evening we went down to a packed Scholz's and got drunk.

Afterwards there were no public memorial services, nobody rushed in counselors, no calls for gun bans....no nuthin'.

[RevMen]

Thanks very much for sharing your story.