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I too suggest not to and actually refuse to put solid wood over concrete. It can be done, but there is one thing no one thinks about, and that is the concretes ability to be below dew point temperature. Guess what happens... It is just a matter of time. The only way that I will consider it is if I spec a floating subfloor, over a triple layer moisture barrier and the wood fastened to the floating subfloor. Wood being hygroscopic, swells the wood cells across the grain, not increasing their length, with a gain of moisture content. With a loss of moisture content the wood shrinks. Solid wood is not as stable across the widths, as a true cross ply engineered wood. Solid wood absorbs moisture fairly fast, from just humidity, but it takes longer for the moisture to leave the wood. Engineered being thin cuts, slices or sawn layers, laminated together in perpendicular layers, makes the layers cancel the swell across the widths, but, there is shrink and swell in the lengths of engineered, because the is several layers of grain width measuring up to the total length of the boards. Swell in engineered is visible as end joint peaking.
Solid wood works well in the upper floors, as long as it is narrow strip flooring, or you keep the humidity levels within 5% all year round, for plank flooring. Or you will see cupping in the summers, and gapping in the winters, with solid plank flooring. even 10% swings can cause a plain sawn strip to compression cup and gap.
With all that said, there are manufactured boards, they market as engineered, that do not meet the ANSI Standards as defined. They are not balanced construction as defined. They have a thick sawn wear layer of the species of wood purchased. it is bonded to many thinner layers of totally different species of wood. Now all species of wood, each having a different shrink and swell coefficient, meaning they all shrink and swell different amounts with the same moisture content. This alone make the design of the construction no different then a solid board, glued to plywood. It is not a balance constructed board. Then some manufacturers are making even ply construction which adds to the mess that happens as the board takes on the stress of shrinking and swelling in an environment it was suppose to be "more stable" in. This design of "engineered" as they are marketing it as, acts just like a solid wood floor, where humidity swings are extreme. The manufacturers call it "shear" which I call BS! I call it a defective design, and false marketing, but to feed my family, I still have to install it.
My wife is allergic to carpet, thus there is no way for us to live with carpet. We have no kids yet. If we have one this year or the next year, it would be years before we worry about scratches etc, right?
We may not use solid wood on the first floor due to the humidity and higher installation cost. However, we can't decide which material to use on the second floor. Right now, Lumber Liquidator has some solid Brazilian cherry for sale, which makes us hesitate whether we should go for the solid one on second floor for additional $1k or $2k material cost. Also since it's second floor, the installation cost should be less, right? Does anyone know generally the difference of installation cost between solid and engineered wood on a second floor? (I know I should call some contractor for the price, but today is Sunday ).
We may also consider cork. I did some research, and it seems the advantage of cork is eco-friendly, cheaper price than solid wood (but comparable to engineered wood), and the possibility of DIY, which could be additional $1k - $2k cost saving. However, I don't know the durability of cork. Do they last long enough? Is cork vulnerable to dent? Is the surface still smooth after few years? Also, I could be wrong but I'm afraid that the house looks cheap with cork (?).
Ceramic tile could be another good choice for the first floor, and cooler in the summer is a real plus in austin. Is it weird to have different ceramic tile on the first floor for living room and hallway/kitchen/breakfast area?
My cork looks anything but cheap. It easier on your feet than either tile or hardwood and it even has great acoustical properties. I do not know about long term durability but you can put cushions under legs of heavy furniture.
As far as eco-friendliness cork wins hands down since they don't kill the tree to harvest the cork bark VERSUS brazilian cherry where you can tell your kids that you are partially responsible for destruction of the rainforest.
Cork also comes out ahead if you want to self-install since the planks usually use some sort of glueless locking mechanism. I have a great looking floor for $4.70/sq. ft. and some sweat equity.
My cork looks anything but cheap. It easier on your feet than either tile or hardwood and it even has great acoustical properties. I do not know about long term durability but you can put cushions under legs of heavy furniture.
As far as eco-friendliness cork wins hands down since they don't kill the tree to harvest the cork bark VERSUS brazilian cherry where you can tell your kids that you are partially responsible for destruction of the rainforest.
Cork also comes out ahead if you want to self-install since the planks usually use some sort of glueless locking mechanism. I have a great looking floor for $4.70/sq. ft. and some sweat equity.
That is why we went for Walnut floors. I couldn't do it after reading a bunch about Brazillian Cherry. Tradional woods are replinished in good ways. I've heard great things about bamboo floors as well.
That is why we went for Walnut floors. I couldn't do it after reading a bunch about Brazillian Cherry. Tradional woods are replinished in good ways. I've heard great things about bamboo floors as well.
Walnut has great detail and beautiful hues. So they have sustainable, certified forests in N. America for Walnut? Can you get it in engineered planks?
Wow, you are the expert. Thank you so much for such a great explanation.
You said narrow strip is fine on the 2nd floor. Is it OK to install 5'' wide solid wood on the second floor? Thank you.
For engineered wood, do you mean all engineered wood are actually bad? Or just some brand or type of engineered wood? Thank you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow
I too suggest not to and actually refuse to put solid wood over concrete. It can be done, but there is one thing no one thinks about, and that is the concretes ability to be below dew point temperature. Guess what happens... It is just a matter of time. The only way that I will consider it is if I spec a floating subfloor, over a triple layer moisture barrier and the wood fastened to the floating subfloor. Wood being hygroscopic, swells the wood cells across the grain, not increasing their length, with a gain of moisture content. With a loss of moisture content the wood shrinks. Solid wood is not as stable across the widths, as a true cross ply engineered wood. Solid wood absorbs moisture fairly fast, from just humidity, but it takes longer for the moisture to leave the wood. Engineered being thin cuts, slices or sawn layers, laminated together in perpendicular layers, makes the layers cancel the swell across the widths, but, there is shrink and swell in the lengths of engineered, because the is several layers of grain width measuring up to the total length of the boards. Swell in engineered is visible as end joint peaking.
Solid wood works well in the upper floors, as long as it is narrow strip flooring, or you keep the humidity levels within 5% all year round, for plank flooring. Or you will see cupping in the summers, and gapping in the winters, with solid plank flooring. even 10% swings can cause a plain sawn strip to compression cup and gap.
With all that said, there are manufactured boards, they market as engineered, that do not meet the ANSI Standards as defined. They are not balanced construction as defined. They have a thick sawn wear layer of the species of wood purchased. it is bonded to many thinner layers of totally different species of wood. Now all species of wood, each having a different shrink and swell coefficient, meaning they all shrink and swell different amounts with the same moisture content. This alone make the design of the construction no different then a solid board, glued to plywood. It is not a balance constructed board. Then some manufacturers are making even ply construction which adds to the mess that happens as the board takes on the stress of shrinking and swelling in an environment it was suppose to be "more stable" in. This design of "engineered" as they are marketing it as, acts just like a solid wood floor, where humidity swings are extreme. The manufacturers call it "shear" which I call BS! I call it a defective design, and false marketing, but to feed my family, I still have to install it.
My cork looks anything but cheap. It easier on your feet than either tile or hardwood and it even has great acoustical properties. I do not know about long term durability but you can put cushions under legs of heavy furniture.
As far as eco-friendliness cork wins hands down since they don't kill the tree to harvest the cork bark VERSUS brazilian cherry where you can tell your kids that you are partially responsible for destruction of the rainforest.
Cork also comes out ahead if you want to self-install since the planks usually use some sort of glueless locking mechanism. I have a great looking floor for $4.70/sq. ft. and some sweat equity.
Thank you. May I ask how long have you been using the cork floor? Thanks. By the way, it seems $4.70 per sq ft is not very cheap, is it?
With reference to BentBow's very scientific explanation, we have 40 year old oak wood floors (top nailed), and have never seen any "cupping and gapping". We don't live in Texas, but we do have humidity swings, as most places do. If I were installing floor, I would look into cork and bamboo, as mentioned earlier, as being more sustainable than hard woods. And as for Brazilian Cherry, that would be a reason not to buy a house to me. As said earlier, I don't want to be walking on the rain forest; I want it to stay in Brazil.
We can not decide whether we should choose engineer wood or solid wood (Brazilian cherry), and we really appreciate if someone could provide some suggestions.
I had the same concerns. My solution was to do both. Downstairs I put engineered because I did not want to incur the cost of putting down a sub floor. The stairs and upstairs is all solid nailed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blahula
Is it a waste to install solid wood considering the price range of the house?
This is a decision you need to make. Personally to me carpet is filthy no matter how much you vacuum it. I purchased a house with in mind I was going to put about 50K more into it after closing which included wood floors and counter tops, etc. After living in a home with wood flooring it's hard to go back
Quote:
Originally Posted by blahula
We heard that engineer wood would be better for Austin due to the humidity. Also, engineer wood is cheaper than solid wood and cheaper to install. However, we can not find many posts about engineer wood. Is it a turnoff for re-sell?
My engineered floor acts no different then my solid wood floor. My installer said it makes not difference to him what he installs, he charged the same. I too had the same concern about engineered being a resell turnoff. You might be thinking laminate, which yes would be a turnoff. There are different quality's of engineered flooring. There is a peeled one like an apple (less quality) , and there is a sliced one (better quality) where you can actually finish a couple of times before it hits the plywood.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blahula
If the solid wood is installed on the 2nd floor, will the humidity be a problem?
Not in my house
Quote:
Originally Posted by blahula
We plan to install engineer wood on the first floor and solid wood on the second. Does that look weird?
That's what I did and you can't tell
Quote:
Originally Posted by blahula
In one post, someone said his rental property had solid wood cherry, and he only need to refurnish it once in 10 years. That is really amazing. We were told engineer wood can be sanded once or twice, but we don't know if it's a good idea to install engineer wood for a potentially rental property in the future.
Wood floors are furniture you walk on, if you treat it right there is no reason to refinish it. My floor is 3 years old and still looks new. If you have renters in a wood floor property anything goes. In my last house the floor was 10 years old and still in great shape.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blahula
Finally, engineer wood has plywood (thus chemical materials) underneath, is that a concern for health?
Thank you. May I ask how long have you been using the cork floor? Thanks. By the way, it seems $4.70 per sq ft is not very cheap, is it?
Only a few months so like I said I do not know about the durability aspect of it.
I wouldn't say cork is cheap. It is more of a mid-priced flooring option that is more expensive than tile except in the case where you install the cork yourself which would put it on par with tile flooring (since most home owners would not attempt putting in any type of tile themselves). That is tile can be had for $1-2 sq. ft. but installed price would be $4-5 so putting a little sweat equity into cork gets pays dividends as far as aesthetics, comfort, and acoustical properties over the more mundane tile.
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