Austin finally importing LA's freeway shootings(road rage)? (Houston, Dallas: real estate, homes)

[inthecut]

Originally Posted by justanothercalifornian

The really poor infrastructure of this city does not help matters much. I just spent some time in Denver, with family, and I was in awe of how well laid out that place is. The street names are alphabetized, sidewalks everywhere, it was a complete breeze getting places. I was feeling a little envious of them when I left. I wish there was something we could do to make Austin a less frustrating place to drive in. This is such an amazing city. Why was it planned so poorly?

Very simple explanation....they never expected so much growth, and let the population double while at best increasing carrying capacity 25%, with a huge 25% overhang....that overhang, the difference between what Austin planned for and what they got(growth), is the very cause of the pain and aggravation you encounter driving in the city and even most burbs.....

Another oddity....lack of left turn lanes at many lights, which make you turn right, and have to pull a 360 through the side streets to go west....

Also, bad signage, per Cedar Park, which has a confusing one way entrance/exit that causes one to drive into traffic head-on like I did at first encountering the sign.....

So blame it on lack of planning/foresight......

Side thought...the TV is on in the background, and they have Billy May pitching a product.....so surreal to have that booming voice from hell pitching products
long past rigor mortis........even the grave didn't stop "Ole Billy" from hawking junk!

[inthecut]

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

Campeador, "driving friendly" Texas-style (as I learned it as my Daddy's knee and observed it being practiced up until about 20 years ago) meant such things as letting people into the flow of traffic when they needed to be if you could do so safely, pulling over to let someone by (I actually thought that was the purpose of the wide shoulders on our roads, that they were built specifically for that), not tailgaiting, basically, being considerate of your fellow drivers on the road. "Friendly" and "considerate" were the same thing.

As I said, it was about 20-25 years ago that the arrival of a large number of people with a different, less considerate driving style was the beginning of the end. For a while, Texans continued to drive friendly in the face of it, but sadly, human nature being what it is, they started reacting badly and copying the behavior that was being done to them. I still try to drive friendly as much as possible without causing a wreck (yes, it really is hard sometimes to do that without causing a traffic hazard when others are doing the "it's all about me and I never matured past the age of three" driving style), and I really do observe a lot of other people doing the same, but sometimes it feels like a losing battle that started long ago with the influx of Californians and New Yorkers that I spoke about. I'm absolutely sure that they're not trying to cause problems; they're just driving as it is normally practiced where they come from.

The greater number of people doesn't help, but that's really pretty much an excuse for behaving badly. All of the drivers could drive friendly and the problems would be lessened.

Of course, that would require planning ahead if you're in a hurry and leaving to allow yourself some time, and realizing that really, the world is NOT all about you and sometimes you won't have instant gratification on the road, and, yes, the traffic laws - ALL of them, including speeding - do apply to you no matter which lane you're in, and you don't push in line on the road any more than you were allowed to in kindergarten but you can let people in to be nice, and a few other ideas that are apparently incomprehensible to some.

Indeed, much of it is lack of social skills....in the past, people did not put a wall of portable electronica between themselves and others....no cell phones, Ipods, or Internet to isolate and excuse lack of social interaction.

At most, back then you could just read a paper or book for that interpersonal wall, but then people would ask what you were reading, and it ended up more a conversational STARTER than anything else...

All electronica does is shut us off from human intercommunication, and destroy social skills that 70's and pre 70's Texas drivers had in spades....

You would actually have to re-engineer society for that, and actually I think it can be done.....we just have to reconceptualize MARKETING, but thats a whole nother post......

And ironic how Austin's growth all came from Marketing.....simply a "City as advertising agency" concept....lord, does Austin know how to market itself, bless its soul!

[BentBow]

Have you ever driven in Mexico?

They are now here without drivers licenses, or insurance, but now they are able to buy guns.

It is a bad situation, that ends tragically.

[bitchen]

Originally Posted by CptnRn

Sadly, road rage is nothing new in Austin. When they catch this guy he will probably be a local moron.

Enh, I don't know. I'm from California, and I consider considerate driving to be a very important aspect of driving. But you know, I'm a native Californian! Those *other* Californians you're referring to probably moved to California from someplace else before they moved here...so, it's not *our* fault, right? Right!

[G Grasshopper]

[quote=TexasHorseLady;11422968]As I said, it was about 20-25 years ago that the arrival of a large number of people with a different, less considerate driving style was the beginning of the end. For a while, Texans continued to drive friendly in the face of it, but sadly, human nature being what it is, they started reacting badly and copying the behavior that was being done to them. I still try to drive friendly as much as possible without causing a wreck (yes, it really is hard sometimes to do that without causing a traffic hazard when others are doing the "it's all about me and I never matured past the age of three" driving style), and I really do observe a lot of other people doing the same, but sometimes it feels like a losing battle that started long ago with the influx of Californians and New Yorkers that I spoke about. I'm absolutely sure that they're not trying to cause problems; they're just driving as it is normally practiced where they come from.

The greater number of people doesn't help, but that's really pretty much an excuse for behaving badly. All of the drivers could drive friendly and the problems would be lessened. [quote]

I have to respectfully disagree here. Californians are not any more rude while driving than any one else. I don't know about New York habits, but the idea that anyone who is not a native Texan is "less considerate" is pretty xenophobic. I think the increasing traffic unfriendliness (in lots of cities) is due to a very quickly growing population, with resultant crowding. Humans are like any other animal: when they are crowded, they start fighting. And the city also has not kept up with infrasturcture needs, also a common problem. We need transportation solutions. Government has not been willing to come up with long term strategies, and taxpayers have been unwilling to let themselves be taxed for more workable transportation solutions. We reap what we sew.

[TexasHorseLady]

G Grasshopper, I grant you, it may have been pure coincidence that I noticed the degradation in driving habits at the same time that there were a LOT more California and New York license plates arriving daily in Austin. I couldn't find anything else to explain it at the time, and the growth wasn't so much as that point as to explain it via the usual "blame infrastructure" and "driving is hell" arguments.

My point was that people who were not used to the courtesies that I described in my post you quoted being a matter of course (or who didn't even realize that those were courtesies or that the way they were driving was considered inconsiderate by the majority of Texas drivers, based on my own experiences driving in East, North, Central, and South Central Texas) were now driving on the roads in a way that was less than friendly OR considerate, and after a brief period of "What the heck are they doing?" Texans started fighting back, in the process degrading our own driving habits.

Whether those people were from California or New York or were ones who had very quickly changed their out of state plates and those from the two states mentioned were derelict in doing so and thus got the blame, the fact remains that an unusual driving style was introduced and it was bad enough to cause the previously considerate driving style to degrade. How do you explain it, given that crowding was not a factor then?

[G Grasshopper]

THL, You may be right. I wasn't living here 20 or 25 years ago, so I can't really make a judgement about the change you saw at that time. I have noticed that people are more likely to "drive friendly" in rural areas, no matter what state one is in, and that people are more likely to be aggressive drivers in cities. Perhaps it is because they live more fast-paced lives in the city, or crowding, or other things. Perhaps Austin started experiencing these problems as it became more of a city rather than a town. This is all pretty idle speculation on my part. But I do feel concerned whenever people start blaming all their troubles on "outsiders". It is easier to scapegoat someone we feel is the "other" than to accept that we could have done more to prevent or avoid the problems.

[capcat]

I agree with the mention of fast-paced lifestyles. There are more demands on families, some of it of our own making as a society. People commute for longer distances to work and, even if they don't, late afternoons, evenings and even lunch hours are filled with racing to take care of daily responsibilities. It's demanding, time-wise and energy-wise and I think tries patience. However, we live this way as a society and it's hard to step back and say no to the lifestyle we've created.

[oldtoiletsmkgdflrpots]

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

As I said, it was about 20-25 years ago that the arrival of a large number of people with a different, less considerate driving style was the beginning of the end. For a while, Texans continued to drive friendly in the face of it, but sadly, human nature being what it is, they started reacting badly and copying the behavior that was being done to them.

sometimes it feels like a losing battle that started long ago with the influx of Californians and New Yorkers that I spoke about.

Oh co'mon you're not really serious are you? You're just joking...right?

[TexasHorseLady]

Nope, simply reporting my observations at the time. A great influx of California and New York license plates at the same time as a noticeable degradation in consideration in driving (driving becoming more of a competitive sport in which you don't let anyone else have an advantage over you rather than something that we're all in together and we do our best to make it work for everyone). Might not have any connection with each other other than that the two things happened simultaneously, but I'm not joking and I'm not joking about the feeling it engenders of it being a losing battle.