Austin residents, do you support the boycott of Arizona? (Howe: hotel, houses)

[austinnerd]

Originally Posted by bmw88rider

The last time I checked it was illegal to be here without proper identification and paperwork either in the form of a visa or a green card.

Well that'd be true if you aren't a citizen. The problem I see is if you are a legal US citizen, now for the first time you are going to _have_ to carry some form of ID with you if you fit a certain ethnic profile. Or be subject to arrest until you (or someone else) is able to produce the required documentation. I think for many that that is the more unnerving thing. What will make it worse is if the most common form of id, your drivers license, proves to not be a valid document to prove your legal status.

Funny how on the face of it, the right tends to be for this law and the left tends not. I would think that anyone who believes in less govt would be aghast at the notion that in the southern states anyone who looks hispanic and in certain "key" locations anyone who looks Arabic will need to carry some proof of citizenship. Yes, let's not forget that the Az laws don't pertain specificially to Hispanics so can be applied to other groups as well.

[centralaustinite]

Historically, don't forget, immigration matters were for CIVIL court, not criminal!

Have you ever fudged the truth on a mortgage application say? That would be a civil matter. It is ILLEGAL but you won't end up in jail unless it rises to the level of criminal fraud which is a different matter.

Yes, the same folks who are horrified at the idea of a national ID card (one world government, black helicopters) think that this law is a great idea.

[hoffdano]

Originally Posted by centralaustinite

Historically, don't forget, immigration matters were for CIVIL court, not criminal!

Huh? It has always been a crime to be in this country illegally. That is how the INS has the authority to deport people. INS didn't have to sue anyone to make them leave the country.

[bmw88rider]

In all honesty, What is the big deal with the national ID card? Most citizens including myself already have a driver's license, passport, and social security card. We are one of only 10 developed nations in the world that does not have this requirement. Shoot, If I could carry less paperwork that would be great! That means the less things I have to renew and worry about getting lost.

As of today, I will already get ticketed if I don't carry my driver's license. I can't cash a check without my ID, I can't board a plane without one among other things.

The ground work for this was already established in the 2006 case Estrada v. Rhode Island which was upheld at the US Court of appeals and denied hearing by the US Supreme Court based on the results of the 2005 case heard by the supreme court Muehler V. Mena For those not familiar with the case, Here is a quick history lesson:

On July 11, 2006, state trooper Thomas Chabot pulled over a 15-passenger van on I-95 south of Providence for failure to signal when changing lanes, an offense that appears frequently in his ticket book, according to a member of his legal team. The driver of the van produced a valid license, registration, and insurance, and said he was taking the passengers to work polishing jewelry in Westerly, RI. Officer Chabot asked the 14 passengers for identification. He later testified that this is standard procedure and that 99 percent of the passengers he encounters can supply it. In this case, one person offered a gym membership card, one offered a non-driver ID, and two presented cards issued by the Guatemalan Chancellor. None had legitimate identification documents, and they admitted to being illegal aliens.

Chabot conducted a standard background check on the driver, which came back clean. He also contacted ICE's Law Enforcement Center. They told Chabot to wait for a call back from the local ICE field office. Three minutes later, the Providence ICE office called back and asked Chabot to escort the van to their office so they could take custody. All 14 passengers were arrested for immigration violations.


The court ruled Chabot had acted reasonably when questioning foreign nationals he encountered on a traffic stop, and in contacting ICE upon discovering that they were illegal aliens en route to work.


You know I wouldn't be as upset about this if the Latin American governments were trying to improve the state of their country but they are not. Look at Columbia as an example that it can work. They have done an amazing job rebuilding that country from it's drug lord torn roots of the late 70's and 80's.


I know that people are going to argue this and I agree to disagree but in the end it comes down to this. We are a country that is swimming debt. Our credit rating is crap, the dollar is down, and we are slowly slipping to a second tier nation. We have a crumbling infrastructure, a deficit that will strangle our children, and no clear path to make it better. We will have to make a decision to take back our nation as a people. We can not support the world on our social programs. Some people are going to get their toes stepped on in the process. No change in ideology comes without a few bruises. We need to tighten the purse strings, control spending, and focus our attention on making this country great again.

[HappyTexan]

Originally Posted by BentBow

All the boycott cancellations to hotels, are being filled with those praising AZ and supporting them on their vacations.

I've read that out of state protesters are there to support boycotting the state.

Then I thought..the boycotters are spending money in AZ to boycott spending money in AZ ???? (food and hotel bills is what I'm thinking here).

[HappyTexan]

Originally Posted by austinnerd

Well that'd be true if you aren't a citizen. The problem I see is if you are a legal US citizen, now for the first time you are going to _have_ to carry some form of ID with you if you fit a certain ethnic profile. Or be subject to arrest until you (or someone else) is able to produce the required documentation. I think for many that that is the more unnerving thing. What will make it worse is if the most common form of id, your drivers license, proves to not be a valid document to prove your legal status.

Funny how on the face of it, the right tends to be for this law and the left tends not. I would think that anyone who believes in less govt would be aghast at the notion that in the southern states anyone who looks hispanic and in certain "key" locations anyone who looks Arabic will need to carry some proof of citizenship. Yes, let's not forget that the Az laws don't pertain specificially to Hispanics so can be applied to other groups as well.

When stopped for a legal issue..the first thing the police ask for is ID.
There is nothing in that bill that allows them to stop a person for "looking illegal".

[ak.nessa]

I support SB1070. I recommend everyone READ THE ENTIRE TEXT OF THE BILL before choosing sides! It's absolutely not "racist" and most legal immigrants actually support it.

What is wrong with Austin's city council? Apparently everything, if they are opposed to Arizona's SB1070, they need to get the hell out of Texas.

[ak.nessa]

Now in Arizona: After someone is caught committing a crime, an officer now has a right to check their immigration status. Why oh why weren't they doing this already?!?

[JayBrown80]

Originally Posted by bmw88rider

In all honesty, What is the big deal with the national ID card? Most citizens including myself already have a driver's license, passport, and social security card. We are one of only 10 developed nations in the world that does not have this requirement. Shoot, If I could carry less paperwork that would be great! That means the less things I have to renew and worry about getting lost.

As of today, I will already get ticketed if I don't carry my driver's license. I can't cash a check without my ID, I can't board a plane without one among other things.

The ground work for this was already established in the 2006 case Estrada v. Rhode Island which was upheld at the US Court of appeals and denied hearing by the US Supreme Court based on the results of the 2005 case heard by the supreme court Muehler V. Mena For those not familiar with the case, Here is a quick history lesson:

On July 11, 2006, state trooper Thomas Chabot pulled over a 15-passenger van on I-95 south of Providence for failure to signal when changing lanes, an offense that appears frequently in his ticket book, according to a member of his legal team. The driver of the van produced a valid license, registration, and insurance, and said he was taking the passengers to work polishing jewelry in Westerly, RI. Officer Chabot asked the 14 passengers for identification. He later testified that this is standard procedure and that 99 percent of the passengers he encounters can supply it. In this case, one person offered a gym membership card, one offered a non-driver ID, and two presented cards issued by the Guatemalan Chancellor. None had legitimate identification documents, and they admitted to being illegal aliens.

Chabot conducted a standard background check on the driver, which came back clean. He also contacted ICE's Law Enforcement Center. They told Chabot to wait for a call back from the local ICE field office. Three minutes later, the Providence ICE office called back and asked Chabot to escort the van to their office so they could take custody. All 14 passengers were arrested for immigration violations.


The court ruled Chabot had acted reasonably when questioning foreign nationals he encountered on a traffic stop, and in contacting ICE upon discovering that they were illegal aliens en route to work.


You know I wouldn't be as upset about this if the Latin American governments were trying to improve the state of their country but they are not. Look at Columbia as an example that it can work. They have done an amazing job rebuilding that country from it's drug lord torn roots of the late 70's and 80's.


I know that people are going to argue this and I agree to disagree but in the end it comes down to this. We are a country that is swimming debt. Our credit rating is crap, the dollar is down, and we are slowly slipping to a second tier nation. We have a crumbling infrastructure, a deficit that will strangle our children, and no clear path to make it better. We will have to make a decision to take back our nation as a people. We can not support the world on our social programs. Some people are going to get their toes stepped on in the process. No change in ideology comes without a few bruises. We need to tighten the purse strings, control spending, and focus our attention on making this country great again.

The difference in the case you mention, and also in the example ak.neesa gives is that your court case revolves around someone identifying themselves AFTER they are stopped by law enforcement for another reason. Thereby establishing probable cause for the officer to identify them and their personal information, like citzenship status.

The Arizona law bypasses that nuance and allows officers to stop and question citizens without probable cause, without reason. Just because they are hispanic. That is the problem.

I don't care if they check EVERY criminal for legal status. I care if they stop every hispanic person and force them to show their ID, not because they were speeding, but because they were brown. That's harassment.

It's a nuance you people just don't seem to understand. Perhaps if it became illegal to have whatever national orgin you have, then you would be a little more up in arms.

[opalminor]

oops-- my vote was supposed to be NO and not YES. I voted too quickly and thought it said 'Do you support the new law that was passed in Arizona'.. to which my answer would be YES. Support the boycott...???? Hailllll NO. Let one state do what they heck they want! Don't like it? Then don't live there! You really want to live in the U.S.? Get citizenship like you have to in every other country in the civilized world. There's too many illegals involved in crime.. not to mention it has dragged down wages and work standards for everyone. SOMETHING'S got to give...!!!!