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true; i was just generalizing , based on incidents i've seen here. When you come around a tight corner or crest a hill on these 2 lane roads at 45-55 and have to hammer the brakes as either the cyclists are riding 2x2 in the road or traffic has come to a crawl as the cars cant pass-- they easily could cause an accident to others. Which really brings it back to my point that maybe they shouldnt be pedaling down those types of roads to begin with.
Agree that's dangerous - from both a cyclist's perspective and a driver's. I usually don't ride those roads for that very reason.
Our problem in the hilly, curvy suburbs north of town is that there are plenty of wealthy weekend warrior riders who live there and cause these conflicts, yet the citizenry has never been interested in paying for improvements to the roadways to include even a modest shoulder (these old country roads have NO shoulder). So they're constantly battling up there, and even though the tax base is tremendous and the problem significant, the obvious solution has been ignored, and they continue to fight!
Drivers need to learn the rules. Treat a bicycle like a car. Don't pass unless you can give 3 feet.
Bicyclists need to learn the rules (or actually follow them). Though my sample size is not that big, I was in a good-sized city yesterday. Seeing cyclists blowing through stop signs, taking turns without using hand signals, passing next to parked cars about 6" away (when someone opens their door, that is going to hurt). Cutting up onto sidewalks to get around things... I pray that they are in good shape, as they will mend faster. At least they were all wearing helmets (which isn't going to help much when colliding with 2 tons of steel).
It may be a good form of transporation; inexpensive, good exercise, non-polluting, but I value my life more (especially true in some cities where the car drivers are, umm, rather extreme).
If as a driver, you already have no qualms pointing fingers & seeing justification at running over (not so good a cyclist who doesn't know what he is doing; and excuse me human flaws, everyone have bad days and sometimes are unwillingly caught in a foreign land with strange roads {i.e. get lost}) a cyclist...
What moral & conscious would you also have in running over a kid???
None!!!
You would still point that finger at others... NEVER yourself!!!
So what even if you are in that wrong???
Yup!!!
Egg vs stone, when consciously doing it & find that excuse to justify that actions (cyclist fault) = total 1 sided selfishness.
Just like what % of people out there use cell phones while driving = same thing (Un-thinking {easily tempted}, selfishness)!!!
If as a driver, you already have no qualms pointing fingers & seeing justification at running over (not so good a cyclist who doesn't know what he is doing; and excuse me human flaws, everyone have bad days and sometimes are unwillingly caught in a foreign land with strange roads {i.e. get lost}) a cyclist...
What moral & conscious would you also have in running over a kid???
None!!!
You would still point that finger at others... NEVER yourself!!!
So what even if you are in that wrong???
Yup!!!
Egg vs stone, when consciously doing it & find that excuse to justify that actions (cyclist fault) = total 1 sided selfishness.
Just like what % of people out there use cell phones while driving = same thing (Un-thinking {easily tempted}, selfishness)!!!
Depends. I don't condone running kids over, don't get me wrong, BUT, there are a fair number of kids in my neighborhood (for example) that are excellent Darwin Award candidates. Either their parents never taught them to be mindful of cars in the street, or they just don't care. More than once I've had a kid roll out in to the middle of the street on his bike, or pop out from behind a car. I've scared the hell out of a few of them when they run out by laying on the horn. Again, I'm in a 4600lb vehicle, they're 75lbs of skin and bone. Whether I'm in the right OR the wrong, they're still dead. There's a reason I don't speed through there, because I know there's a ton of stupid kids out. Same goes for people who like to run across 4 lane roads without using the crosswalk at night - I'm gonna feel bad about hitting you, but you're still probably dead. Goes for cyclists too.
Bicyclists need to learn the rules (or actually follow them). Though my sample size is not that big, I was in a good-sized city yesterday. Seeing cyclists blowing through stop signs, taking turns without using hand signals, passing next to parked cars about 6" away (when someone opens their door, that is going to hurt). Cutting up onto sidewalks to get around things... I pray that they are in good shape, as they will mend faster. At least they were all wearing helmets (which isn't going to help much when colliding with 2 tons of steel).
It may be a good form of transporation; inexpensive, good exercise, non-polluting, but I value my life more (especially true in some cities where the car drivers are, umm, rather extreme).
Well since you don't sound like a likely convert, just give us 3 feet of space and don't worry us getting doored. Also, if you don't like cyclists disobeying rules, you can get on your local politicans to enforce the laws. This is an enforcement issue, not a behavior issue. Drivers would speed more if not for police enforcement, right?
And about getting doored - if bicycle lanes were designed properly it would happen a lot less. In most U.S. bike lane designs cyclists protect the cars, instead of the other way around:
When I used to ride my bike to work along PCH in Califronia, the bike lane was a narrow strip of pavement at the edge of the road. Traffic was roaring by only a couple of feet away at 55 mph (or more). Occasionally some young idiots would try to get their jollies by swerving over intothe bike lane to scare me. I got hit several times. For a while I started carrying a small can of pink spray paint in my roadside hand. I striped one of those A holes only once. It did not usually work because they were not close enough and moving too fast and I usually had little or no warning when they did it. I gave up because it was a PIA to carry it, but it was quite satisfying the one time it worked.
If you come flying over a hill or around a curve and have to slam on your brakes becuase bikers are in the road, you probably need to drive more carefully. Bikes riding tandem are nto different than a broken down car, a deer or a child running out or any other obstacle for which you need to be prepared. If you are having problems stopping wihtout causing an accident becuase of bikes, then someone is driving improperlty (it may be the person behind you rather than you, but that merely demonstrates why you should slow way down if you get a tailgater).
Kid do not follow rules on bike on neighborhood roads. They do not follow rules on foot either. Sometimes you just have to be aware that you are in a kid heavy zone and proceed with caution. When I go home, many of our streets are far more covered with kids on bikes, skates, skateboards, foot, etc., than there are cars on the roads. They do not pay as much attention as they should, therefore it is my job to be extra careful in that area (we also have adults running, walking, etc., as well as geese in the road, dogs, deer, people carrying boats across to the water, all kinds of crazy things it is kind of like a dodge-em video game on some evenings). However no matter who is being irresponsible, if you hit someone with a car, you will usually be held responsible and liable regardless of the circumstances.
Depends. I don't condone running kids over, don't get me wrong, BUT, there are a fair number of kids in my neighborhood (for example) that are excellent Darwin Award candidates. Either their parents never taught them to be mindful of cars in the street, or they just don't care. More than once I've had a kid roll out in to the middle of the street on his bike, or pop out from behind a car. I've scared the hell out of a few of them when they run out by laying on the horn. Again, I'm in a 4600lb vehicle, they're 75lbs of skin and bone. Whether I'm in the right OR the wrong, they're still dead. There's a reason I don't speed through there, because I know there's a ton of stupid kids out. Same goes for people who like to run across 4 lane roads without using the crosswalk at night - I'm gonna feel bad about hitting you, but you're still probably dead. Goes for cyclists too.
UNfortunately, whether you are right or wrong, if they are dead, you are probably going to be civilly liable and likely criminally prosecuted as well.
UNfortunately, whether you are right or wrong, if they are dead, you are probably going to be civilly liable and likely criminally prosecuted as well.
Yes, "Darwin" has nothing to do criminal and civil prosecution. "Darwin awards" might be a funny phrase to toss around or watch youtube videos about, but I promise the phrase would never come up in a court where a trial for vehicular homicide was taking place.
Tax them to pay for the dedicated ,clearly marked bike lanes. That would be fair.
Even though I have a car, that I drive occasionally, so I pay my way there some, I'd be happy to pay a tax related to my bike use of the road. Registration cost for my old car is only $75/yr. I probably should be paying more. $75/yr doesn't go very far in public road maintenance.
How would such a tax on bikes be determined? A percentage of the value of the bike? Is there a KBB for bikes? Some of my bikes are very old frames with a variety of moving parts from ebay and bike swaps. What would a bike like that bike be worth?
Or maybe a flat fee per bike. Should my 9 yo little friend who is just getting into bicycling, and rides with me on quiet roads, be sent a tax bill for her use of the road of her bike?
On my daily commute to work parts of my route have a marked bike lane, parts just have a paved, albeit gravelly, wide shoulder (filled with broken glass in some places), and other parts have no pavement to the right of the white line. Would I only have to pay for the parts of my commute that have the marked bike lane?
Methinks the bureaucracy required to effectively collect taxes from bicycle riders would eat up most of the tax money that would be collected well before any of that money gets to the pavement.
Gas and car ownership will probably not get any cheaper in the future. Get used to sharing the road with bicycles.
well since you don't sound like a likely convert, just give us 3 feet of space and don't worry us getting doored.
i can give the 3 feet of space, and i do.
also, if you don't like cyclists disobeying rules, you can get on your local politicans to enforce the laws. This is an enforcement issue, not a behavior issue.
i see, so laws only apply if you get caught.
with that logic, people can go out and do any illegal things they want, and hey, if they doesn't get caught, it is perfectly ok. Me thinks someone should run for political office.
drivers would speed more if not for police enforcement, right?
where i lived the typical driver would easily run 10-15 mph over the limit. There is a common-sense aspect to this as well. You need to go-with-the-flow of traffic, unless you want to be a danger on the road, forcing people to pass you, incessantly
and about getting doored - if bicycle lanes were designed properly it would happen a lot less.
i would be all for bicycle lanes, if those that utilize them, pay for them. My tax dollars pay for the road, which i use. My tax dollars pay for the sidewalks, which i use. I think it is only fair, to cover the cost of construction and maintenance of the bicycle lanes, that the bikes need to be registered/licensed, and depending on number of riders, i think a fee of $1k a year is a good start. Requiring a riding license should be mandatory, and being caught without all of the above would involve forfeiture of the bike, and all legal aspects equal to driving a car without a license.
in most u.s. Bike lane designs cyclists protect the cars, instead of the other way around:
well, everyone's car insurance premiums go up when someone hangs a left in front of a car without signaling, and the individual bounces off the hood.
so actually, just coming to mind, i think that riders should also have to carry liability insurance. It is done on cars, trucks, planes, boats.... Let's add bicycles...
jmho.
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