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First I would like to say that a "car guy" is not someone who trades cars every few years and constantly has a car payment. A "car guy" is someone with cars they really like, keep, maintain and they have a garage with the tools to do so. I still have my very first truck. My daily driver I bought new over 16 years ago and it runs like a top. I have a corvette and a 4WD. Every single one of them are paid for and I haven't paid car payments in years.
You are truly misguided when you say a car will eventually wear out and have to be replaced. That is completely untrue. They are machines made of metal with some seats and interior. The engine wears out, you put a new one in. The transmission breaks, you put a new one in or repair it. The leather seats start cracking and tearing, you take it to the upholstery shop. Some metal cracks or gets a little rust, you grind it out and weld it up or put a new fender on or whatever. It is all just parts and bolts that can be replaced when necessary. Of course, a real car guy would know that and have the knowledge to do those replacements and repairs.
Now for the money end of it, as I mentioned, I still have my very first truck. At this point, if you annualize it out over the time I have owned the truck, I have an annual cost of around $750 on that truck. Of course, the bulk of that was when I first bought it and was paying payments so over the past 20 years I really have only spent an average of around $300 in repairs. Some years I didn't have any repairs and some years I had a couple. On my current daily driver, I am now at around $2000 annualized over the time I have owned it. Of course the bulk was when I was paying payments. In the last 13 years, I am probably around an average of $500 per year in costs. I haven't had to turn a bolt on it in the past 3 years.
I know some people view vehicles as a status symbol but the funny thing is most of them are barely making ends meet they are so far in debt. I know people who drive Range Rovers but they pay their utility bill late and come close to the power being turned off a couple of times a year. Sam Walton could have driven anything he wanted but when he died he was still driving an old beat up Ford F150. People who didn't realize who he was probably thought he was just some broke old man driving around in a beat up ford truck. lol Look up what some of the wealthiest people drive such as Warren Buffet, Alice Walton and Mark Zuckerburg. You will probably be surprised.
Your car will eventually need a repair that will eventually cost more than the car is worth. Hoses and seals start to age and rot. Moving parts begin to wear. It’s a machine not a statue. If you pickle it in your garage and drive it 5k miles a year it will last much longer but you cannot stop the aging process. Not cheaply anyway.
If you’re still driving an old paid off Vette and not trying out a new one you are missing out. In fact, that’s just depressing.
Your car will eventually need a repair that will eventually cost more than the car is worth. Hoses and seals start to age and rot. Moving parts begin to wear. It’s a machine not a statue. If you pickle it in your garage and drive it 5k miles a year it will last much longer but you cannot stop the aging process. Not cheaply anyway.
If you’re still driving an old paid off Vette and not trying out a new one you are missing out. In fact, that’s just depressing.
My cars winter outdoors in Vermont. I once had a 2003 SUV I pretty much only drove the 2 miles to the mountain for the last 6 years I owned it. At 12 years, my indie mechanic would scream at me any time I brought it in. Any repair under the car required a torch, SawzAll, and/or EasyOuts. My 2007 VW GTI was looking pretty ratty if you put it up on the lift in 2015 when I traded it. The 2015 I'm driving now, I plan to dump at 8 years before I start having corrosion issues.
My garage is stuffed full of boats. I can't have a garage queen summer car.
First I would like to say that a "car guy" is not someone who trades cars every few years and constantly has a car payment. A "car guy" is someone with cars they really like, keep, maintain and they have a garage with the tools to do so. I still have my very first truck. My daily driver I bought new over 16 years ago and it runs like a top. I have a corvette and a 4WD. Every single one of them are paid for and I haven't paid car payments in years.
I'm a car guy and have had over 100 cars in the last 40 years, none have been kept more than 5 years. I simply like all cars and can't own them all at once. I have the tools to keep them maintained, but i don't necessarily want to. I've had old cars, new cars, bought with cash, had loans, and leased depending on the situation. A car guy doesn't necessarily just keep the first car he could afford and then stop. And having payments doesn't mean your not a car guy, either. Sorry.
Fact: driving a car 10-12 years does prevent one from being a “car person”. There’s no requirment to constantly have a car payment. And frankly, who cares if one is a “car person” or not.
No one is saying YOU should drive a car 12 years. I’m simply saying that it saves a significant amount of money and modern cars are certainly reliable enough to last that long.
Yes, a car will eventually need to be replaced but replacing a car every 12 years is significantly less expensive than a constant car payment. There’s no denying it. It’s basic math.
You're right to a point.
In my opinion, I don't think a 12 year old vehicle fits the definition of "modern" when virtually every carmaker today will introduce a completely new generation of their production models every 5-7 years.
Yes, you won't have monthly payments but I think you're grossly underestimating two things:
1) the frequency that you'll have to make repairs, and
2) the cost of those repairs (including the cost of your time whether you fix it yourself or take it to a shop).
Some of the benefits of steady payments (yes, there are benefits) are:
- Peace of mind (at the time of purchase/lease, new and newer vehicles will have or offer warranty/maintenance coverage for a specific length of time which you will have the option of extending, if you desire)
- The latest safety features and technology
- A more fuel efficient vehicle
Many people value these benefits and find the costs to be fair, reasonable and will pay for them, while others like you don't and won't.
If you’re trying to make the “most bang for the transportation buck” argument, you’re not a car guy. You’re just a guy who wants to travel as cheaply as possible. You’re generic “12 year” rule or whatever is strongly dependent on depreciation, initial cost, and how often you drive the car and often you use it.
What’s not subjective is the fact that you will need to replace that car one day.
:yawn: More of this car guy stuff? Where did I say anything about traveling as cheaply as possible? If that was my point, I wouldn’t have used a $40k car as an example - I would’ve said buy a base Corolla and drive it 12 years (not that there’s anything wrong with that) or even 20 years.
Yes, 12 years is arbitrary - the point is that buying a car and driving it well beyond the payment period (be it 10, 12, 15 years) is MUCH cheaper than being saddled with a constant car payment.
Last edited by eddiehaskell; 10-16-2018 at 01:01 PM..
In my opinion, I don't think a 12 year old vehicle fits the definition of "modern" when virtually every carmaker today will introduce a completely new generation of their production models every 5-7 years.
Yes, you won't have monthly payments but I think you're grossly underestimating two things:
1) the frequency that you'll have to make repairs, and
2) the cost of those repairs (including the cost of your time whether you fix it yourself or take it to a shop).
Some of the benefits of steady payments (yes, there are benefits) are:
- Peace of mind (at the time of purchase/lease, new and newer vehicles will have or offer warranty/maintenance coverage for a specific length of time which you will have the option of extending, if you desire)
- The latest safety features and technology
- A more fuel efficient vehicle
Many people value these benefits and find the costs to be fair, reasonable and will pay for them, while others like you don't and won't.
Either way, it's all good.
In my example, I used year 12 as the point where one would be getting into a newer car. “Modern” is a pretty subjective term and it depends on how picky (or spoiled) you may be. What about year 7, 8, 9, 10 and 11? Personally, driving a 2007 automobile in 2018 wouldn’t be a problem for me. When you look at cars in a historical sense, in most cases is a new car really revolutionary compared to a 10-12 year old car? Sure their are incremental improvements made but I wouldn’t exactly call a 2007 or 2008 model a penalty box...especially if you really liked the car just 10-12 years ago. Now if money isn’t really an issue, than sure, upgrade every 4 years or every year if you want. Even for a lot of financially comfortable people though - getting their money’s worth out of a purchase is something that is often considered. That’s why you’ll often see relatively wealthy people here and in the real world happily plodding along in their 10 year car (basically every comfortable person in family for example).
As I said before, the average person wanting to drive a car 12 years will likely go into year 12 with their vehicle having less than 165k miles. I would say that’s nothing for a modern vehicle. I don’t think I’m underestimating repair cost AT ALL.
If you consider a 10-12 year old car unsafe - well that’s your right.
If increased gas mileage is a factor, than run the numbers and you’ll probably see that in doesn’t put a dent in the savings you would’ve otherwise had by continuing to drive the older car.
I would say most Americans live in a financial world where decisions have to be made. Some may decide to drive a slightly older car so they can: remodel or make improvements to their home, save for their children’s college expenses, retire more comfortably or earlier, move to a better neighborhood, etc. Not having a constant car payment is an easy way to help make those things happen.
Last edited by eddiehaskell; 10-16-2018 at 01:15 PM..
Not true at all. You can sell your car at anytime and get something cheaper as your lifestyle changes. . What you don’t want to be is upside down in value or at least have savings to cover the depreciation. The car isn’t worth anymore paid off than it is with payments. It’s the overalll equity that you should be interested in.
so your saying go from a payment to a smaller payment? problem is YOU WOULD STILL HAVE A PAYMENT!!! if you income drops or you get laid off, if you don't have a car payment in the first place thats one less thing to worry about while your getting back on your feet. and when I worked at a car lot there were plenty of cars that came back(repo'd) that were mostly paid off(five or 6 months away from being paid off).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whyrallnamestaken
During those 12 years what are you doing? After it is paid off, are you saving money towards another car? That's like a car payment. At least this is what you should do if you want to pay cash for a vehicle or finance a purchase so your monthly payments are affordable.
Simple math new care every 4 years, average new car $20K, so $60K spent every 12 years.
new car every 12 years statistically one or 2 major issues and a few minor ones you can fix yourself in the 8 years with no payment so a few grand keeping it running in the 8 years after its paid that's $36K (or less) over 12 years.
Or if your like me and get cash cars, if you choose well and take car of them I always seem to get years out of them saving hundreds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChessieMom
Definitely nothing to do with it for me. I've always bought new, and driven it till it is done. I hate car payments, and I have a lot more important things to spend my money on that a new car (which depreciates faster than you can spit). I buy a good reliable car. I mean, unless you get a lemon, you take car of it, and it takes care of you.
yep and with lemon laws improving that happens less and less, PS: you seem like a good woman, the world need more of you .
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChessieMom
Wow that is just SO not the case. Women are far more impressed nowadays if you CAN fix ^^ that stuff...because SO FEW MEN THESE DAYS CAN. (Except for the older dudes!)
Nope you are just a wonderful outlier, plenty of women around her have men that are good with their hands but complain about their man not having thing done by a pro.
I have a cousin who has a man like that, she was pissed at him because he did not want to pay half to have the kitchen redone, He just redid it himself for 1/8 the price had everything looking like new.
(re-stained and repaired everything), turns out she wanted a new style cause she was tired of looking at it. it would have costed much more even if he did it himself
In my example, I used year 12 as the point where one would be getting into a newer car. “Modern” is a pretty subjective term and it depends on how picky (or spoiled) you may be. What about year 7, 8, 9, 10 and 11? Personally, driving a 2007 automobile in 2018 wouldn’t be a problem for me. When you look at cars in a historical sense, in most cases is a new car really revolutionary compared to a 10-12 year old car? Sure their are incremental improvements made but I wouldn’t exactly call a 2007 or 2008 model a penalty box...especially if you really liked the car just 10-12 years ago. Now if money isn’t really an issue, than sure, upgrade every 4 years or every year if you want. Even for a lot of financially comfortable people though - getting their money’s worth out of a purchase is something that is often considered. That’s why you’ll often see relatively wealthy people here and in the real world happily plodding along in their 10 year car (basically every comfortable person in family for example).
As I said before, the average person wanting to drive a car 12 years will likely go into year 12 with their vehicle having less than 165k miles. I would say that’s nothing for a modern vehicle. I don’t think I’m underestimating repair cost AT ALL.
If you consider a 10-12 year old car unsafe - well that’s your right.
If increased gas mileage is a factor, than run the numbers and you’ll probably see that in doesn’t put a dent in the savings you would’ve otherwise had by continuing to drive the older car.
Dude, you don't need to be defensive.
First, I acknowledged that my calling a 12 years old vehicle not "modern" is my opinion and I stand by that opinion.
Second, I never said a 12 year old vehicle is unsafe but do you deny that a new vehicle has better and more safety features and technology?
:yawn: More of this car guy stuff? Where did I say anything about traveling as cheaply as possible? If that was my point, I wouldn’t have used a $40k car as an example - I would’ve said buy a base Corolla and drive it 12 years (not that there’s anything wrong with that) or even 20 years.
Yes, 12 years is arbitrary - the point is that buying a car and driving it well beyond the payment period (be it 10, 12, 15 years) is MUCH cheaper than being saddled with a constant car payment.
I’m not sure where you’re trying to go with this. You’re the one adamant that a 12 year old car is good enough and trying to define what a car guy is. That’s just a matter of opinion not worth arguing about. You’re the one who selected $40k as an adequate price for a new car. You’re already materialistic enough to chose a $40k car, yet suddenly switch to becoming practical when it comes to keeping it forever and saving a bunch of money. If saving money was your overall goal, you shouldn’t have started with a brand new $40k car.
Either way you should be saving for your car’s $40k replacement as soon as you pay it off, because by then a $40k car will then cost $50k by the time 12 years is up (or 6 years or 24 years or whatever).
I’m not sure where you’re trying to go with this. You’re the one adamant that a 12 year old car is good enough and trying to define what a car guy is. That’s just a matter of opinion not worth arguing about. You’re the one who selected $40k as an adequate price for a new car. You’re already materialistic enough to chose a $40k car, yet suddenly switch to becoming practical when it comes to keeping it forever and saving a bunch of money. If saving money was your overall goal, you shouldn’t have started with a brand new $40k car.
Either way you should be saving for your car’s $40k replacement as soon as you pay it off, because by then a $40k car will then cost $50k by the time 12 years is up (or 6 years or 24 years or whatever).
Can you quote where I put ANY stipulations on what constitutes a “car guy”. I don’t care in the the least! You are the one the went on a spiel about what real car guys do or don’t do. I selected $40k because it’s a round number close to what the average new car sells for ($36,500 I believe) - not because I’m materialistic.
You are stuck on bad math because you still believe all the money saved by driving cars 12 years instead of keeping a car payment goes toward another car in 12 years. It’s basic math that you are having trouble with.
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At least this is what you should do if you want to pay cash for a vehicle or finance a purchase so your monthly payments are affordable.
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