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Who qualifies a 10-12 year old car as severely outdated? That’s pretty subjective.
Driving an old Porsche, Miata, S2000, muscle car, anything built in 70s/80s/90s, motorcycle, etc more than 1000 miles per year is probably more dangerous than the risk of a potential breakdown in a 10 year old Honda resulting in one being killed, raped or murdered on the side of the road. Heck, riding a motorcycle or bicycle more than 500 miles is probably way more dangerous.
What defines a “car guy” is very subjective. The guy driving a ‘87 IROC could seriously know automobiles and how to wrench on a car...maybe he likes the car or maybe he drives it instead of what he could otherwise afford...maybe a 95 Corolla.
The point about the bicycle was that we all take calculated risk everyday. If daily driving a 10 year old Honda is the most risky thing you do...well, I sorta wonder if you’re living or just waiting for a spot to open up in the nursing home.
Why drive a 10 year old Honda when I don’t have to? I would feel fine in a 10 year old Honda. I would hate my life and not enjoy driving it, walking up to it in a parking lot, or even having it my driveway, but I would feel safe enough driving it.
Why drive a 10 year old Honda when I don’t have to? I would feel fine in a 10 year old Honda. I would hate my life and not enjoy driving it, walking up to it in a parking lot, or even having it my driveway, but I would feel safe enough driving it.
Maybe because some people like their car, it meets their needs and as a bonus they have no car payment which allows them to allocate those funds to other things. Perhaps you wanted a CRV/Accord/Civic and it still works well for you? Maybe you wanted a Ridgeline and still enjoy it enough to keep driving it? Maybe you still enjoy driving your S2000?
Drive a car 10 years, then buy another that due to inflation cost 4-5k more than you paid for the first car.
Drive a car 5 years...pay more for another car 5 years later due to inflation...buy another 5 years later and pay more due to inflation...buy another 5 years later and pay more due to inflation.
Trading every 5 years doesn’t mean you escape inflation.
All cars require maintenance.
What specifically expensive maintenance does a 100k mile Honda or Toyota need to take it to 150k miles? Brake pads? Spark plugs?
If you drive a car 120k miles and for some reason all hell breaks lose and it suddenly turns into a lemon - what’s to stop you from selling it and buying another car? Most people that drive a car 10-12+ years aren’t going to keep sinking money into something that’s worth $5k. If a water pump goes out they might fix it and drive several more years. If things breaking start to hint at continuingly frequent repairs they buy something else. However, most modern cars will easily make it 10-12 years before “all hell breaks lose”. Some may even make it much longer....if you decide to push 200k+ miles than you accept that possibility. Hence why I threw out my 10-12 year number...relatively minor reliability risks associated with driving a car that long yet one can still save a substantial amount of money vs perpetual car payments.
If one doesn’t have their finances in order enough to afford potential replacement car 10-12 years later than I would caution that things probably won’t be in order with their perpetual car payment in place.
At about 100k miles you’re looking at spark plugs, transmission and radiator fluid changes, tires most likely, maybe brakes. There’s also a huge depreciation hit after 100k miles. There’s another hit for every generation the car is old. It’s not as simple as “just keep it so many years”.
As to when “all hell breaks loose” on a modern car, you have no data to support that. Who have you talked to that’s gotten at least 120k mikes out of their brand new 2018 vehicle? The manufacturer doesn’t even support that, hence their warranty taps out at 60k miles. That’s only an assumption you’re making strictly based on your past anecdotal experiences with that brand. In other words the worst science experiment ever. Right now there’s a lot of technology being tried out at once in the name of emissions and CAFE standards, from automatic engine start stop systems to mild hybrids, to 9 speed transmissions. Manufacturers are in a rush to hit arbitrary economy standards with unproven technology. It remains to be seen how robust a modern car really is. I’m sure somebody buying a Honda Odyssey in 2005 would have never guessed that their transmission would need to be replaced every 60k miles.
Most cars that I think will last that long I wouldn’t want to own anyway.
If people don’t have their finances in order to afford a potential replacement in 12 years it’s because they didn’t have a perpetual car payment plan in place. Do you think people saving an additional few hundred bucks a month are going to invest in high yield bonds or mutual funds? You stated yourself that Americans don’t really have that much in savings.
Maybe because some people like their car, it meets their needs and as a bonus they have no car payment which allows them to allocate those funds to other things. Perhaps you wanted a CRV/Accord/Civic and it still works well for you? Maybe you wanted a Ridgeline and still enjoy it enough to keep driving it? Maybe you still enjoy driving your S2000?
You said it. “Allocate those funds to other things” . So when the CRV doesn’t end up lasting forever, then what? S2000 sucks: Engine alone is at least $15k to replace and its worth less than that. It only gets 25 mpg and only puts out 220 hp. The interior interface was outdated the day it was built.
Nobody wants a Ridgeline.
At about 100k miles you’re looking at spark plugs, transmission and radiator fluid changes, tires most likely, maybe brakes. There’s also a huge depreciation hit after 100k miles. There’s another hit for every generation the car is old. It’s not as simple as “just keep it so many years”.
As to when “all hell breaks loose” on a modern car, you have no data to support that. Who have you talked to that’s gotten at least 120k mikes out of their brand new 2018 vehicle? The manufacturer doesn’t even support that, hence their warranty taps out at 60k miles. That’s only an assumption you’re making strictly based on your past anecdotal experiences with that brand. In other words the worst science experiment ever. Right now there’s a lot of technology being tried out at once in the name of emissions and CAFE standards, from automatic engine start stop systems to mild hybrids, to 9 speed transmissions. Manufacturers are in a rush to hit arbitrary economy standards with unproven technology. It remains to be seen how robust a modern car really is. I’m sure somebody buying a Honda Odyssey in 2005 would have never guessed that their transmission would need to be replaced every 60k miles.
Most cars that I think will last that long I wouldn’t want to own anyway.
If people don’t have their finances in order to afford a potential replacement in 12 years it’s because they didn’t have a perpetual car payment plan in place. Do you think people saving an additional few hundred bucks a month are going to invest in high yield bonds or mutual funds? You stated yourself that Americans don’t really have that much in savings.
All of the maintenance you mention is equivalent to about 1.5 car payments. Big whoop. Depreciation hit at 100k? Does it matter if you aren’t trading?
What proof do you have that 2018 vehicles will be LESS reliable? Reliability studies like JD Power certainly indicate that just about all automakers have continually improved reliability over the years. Most automakers offer bumper-to-bumper extended warranties out to 125k miles. Why? Pretty confident in their build quality?
Ok - so let’s see, you bring up me mentioning the average American having less than $5k in savings yet your answer is to have a perpetual car payment like most of those people probably already have? Makes no sense. If you save $300-400+/month by not having a car payment, why couldn’t one invest it, pay off high interest credit cards, put it toward paying off a home, etc? I was doing all that in my late teens/early 20s.
You said it. “Allocate those funds to other things” . So when the CRV doesn’t end up lasting forever, then what? S2000 sucks: Engine alone is at least $15k to replace and its worth less than that. It only gets 25 mpg and only puts out 220 hp. The interior interface was outdated the day it was built.
Nobody wants a Ridgeline.
10-12 year equals forever now? Moving those goal post much?
S2000 sucks according to who? You? Well that ends that I guess, lol. I’m sure we can find someone that will say any car you can think of “sucks”. You’re a car guy yet you don’t know the S2000 makes 237hp? You do know that roadsters aren’t all about HP, right? You do know that one of the most popular roadsters ever made (Miata) “only” made 155hp up until 2018, right?
Who cares how much a new S2000 engine costs? And you believe it costs $15k to replace a F20C?
All of the maintenance you mention is equivalent to about 1.5 payments. Big whoop. Depreciation hit at 100k? Does it matter if you aren’t trading?
What proof do you have that 2018 vehicles will be LESS reliable? Reliability studies like JD Power certainly indicate that just about all automakers have continually improved reliability over the years. Most automakers offer bumper-to-bumper extended warranties out to 125k miles. Why? Pretty confident in their build quality?
Ok - so let’s see, you bring up me mentioning the average American having less than $5k in savings yet your answer is to have a perpetual car payment like most of those people probably already have? Makes no sense. If you save $300-400+/month by not having a car payment, why couldn’t one invest it, pay off high interest credit cards, put it toward paying off a home, etc? I was doing all that in my late teens/early 20s.
I don't need proof for something in the future, that's called a crystal ball. You plan for the worst not the best.
Not everything new is more reliable. Honda lurches ahead with pesky 9-speed transmission - Chicago Tribune. Car manufacturers keep their warranties short at 60K miles or so for a reason. You're trusting their design more than they do. The auto industry as a whole might be more reliable than it was 10 years ago, but for all you know your car is the one outlier dragging down the average from being even higher. The manufactures right now are prioritizing CAFE standards over longevity. They want their cars to be reliable enough to maintain a reputation, but not so reliable that you don't by the new models they're spending money designing.
It's not subjective. You know exactly how "old and busted" your car is by it's resell value. If your car is appraised at $1K, that means you've been driving a $1K car, not the $40K car you bought 12 years ago. It means nobody else values your car either and they probably won't trust it to drive out of the county. If your lifestyle dictates that you required a $40K car in the first place, you'll need to trade your car in more often. Do it right and you can have it both ways. My car payment is less than my summer electric bill and I keep up with the current generation and enjoy full warranty coverage and performance, mileage, and safety improvements because I don't wait until the car is worthless to get a new one.
To your other point, people who are oriented towards saving money don't have high interest credit cards to pay off. Paying off your mortgage early is a guaranteed return on investment of whatever your mortgage rate is minus your tax deduction, but you won't see the savings for another decade or more and it won't be a liquid asset. What you did in your early 20's might sound like a recipe for success to you, but your lifestyle honestly doesn't sound anything to be envious of.
I am a woman who never worried much about safety by virtue of the fact that I am six feet tall. While it wasn't always socially easy being a woman of this height, the upside is that nobody really ever saw me as a target for robbery or assault.
You are very correct, women over 5ft9 or over 170-LBS become 8X less likely to be raped or kidnapped(it can still happen though). those type of people want an easy target, someone they can scoop up, throw in their trunk and drive off before anyone notices. and at 6ft tall, a guy would get caught by some morning jogger before he finished digging your shallow grave.
Necessary vs unnecessry risk. Don’t put yourself at risk if you don’t have to.
Which means taken it’s logical conclusion that if you take any action but the safest action you take a unnessecary risk.
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