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People keep telling me to buy two cars: one limited range EV for around town, and a second, for those times I need to go hundreds of miles and not worry about range.
I guess this works out as long as you are able to have two cars. Some individuals and even couples or families can only have one - like in some urban limited-parking types of housing - I've lived in several apartments in the past where there was only one deeded parking space. Then there's the question of whether or not there's a charger available.
I think what it boils down to is, EV's are for the affluent who own homes, can afford to pay for an EV, can afford a second ICE vehicle for longer trips, towing & camping, etc. They can feel all smug about doing their bit for the environment, I suppose.
For the working class and a lot of the middle class who are living week to week, barely getting by, carrying student loans or credit card debt... it's got to be ICE vehicles for the immediate future.
I've mentioned this before -- my kid's starting college, locally, and planning to live at home. I'd love to get her in a cheap BEV that will have low maintenance, perfect for her needs. 100 miles of range would probably be plenty. I'm looking into used Bolts and Leafs (leaves?) but it's hard to find one that's much cheaper than new MSRP not to mention the Leaf range tends to be shot after a few years, down to 30 miles or so. Not sure about the Bolt.
C'mon man. The average car ownership per US household is 1.88, meaning the average household has at least 2 cars.
I don't have a dog in this fight, but it always seems that the anti-EV crowd around here always wants to trumpet edge cases just to make an argument. (And especially Oy has always been consistent that an EV isn't going to work for everyone at this point in time.)
Having successfully bought 2 very different used EVs over the years, my cost analysis is very different.
In Spring 2016, I bought an off-lease fully loaded 2013 Fiat 500e w/ 20K miles on it for $7,300 out the door from a used car dealer. The 500e was a compliance vehicle that helped FCA boost their fleet MPG so they could sell more Maseratis and Dodge Hellcats at greater margins. California allowed for tax credits to be applied to lease vehicles such that the cost to lease these cars were as low as $49 a month with a $2K downpayment. My wife and I considered leasing, but auto insurance was going to be $130 a month which seemed crazy. We opted to buy a lease-return when the 2013 were flooding the secondary market. Insurance for a used 500e was only $42 a month (huge difference compared to a new one). With free charging at my wife's office garage 45 miles away, free use of the toll-lane with the solo-HOV decal, and essentially free electricity at home (4.8kW solar array with an advantageous price arbitrage), the payback period was less than 1.5 years compared to the 28mpg Lexus Rx400h and gasoline at $4/gallon my wife drove. The car has essentially been a free car to use and it makes for a great local errand car. We have 89K miles on it now.
In December 2018, my wife was getting concerned that the Fiat solo-HOV decals were going to expire and that the decals saved her about 40 minutes each commute day. She wanted a solution so I looked into buying a used Tesla Model S from out of state to qualify for a new decal. We bought a November 2013 built Model S 85 with 59K miles from Tesla in Scottsdale, Az for just under $39K. We have over 130K miles but had about $10K in warranty work done on the car, plus a computer upgrade for $1,600. The car is fine for driving distance <500 miles, but I'd consider a $20K battery upgrade to get 48% more range and 200% faster Level 3 charging sessions if I had to drive to further destinations. I paid 61% less than the original owner and got more use out if than they did.
Generally the best value proposition is to get as much use out of your vehicle as possible. The potential cost of repairs and reliability remains a big unknown, but I have plans for both my 500e and Tesla battery and motor should the cars need to be scrapped. The hope is that as the volume of EVs become larger that 3rd party developers will improve on the OEM parts with more reliable, lower cost, and reusable parts.
C'mon man. The average car ownership per US household is 1.88, meaning the average household has at least 2 cars.
I don't have a dog in this fight, but it always seems that the anti-EV crowd around here always wants to trumpet edge cases just to make an argument. (And especially Oy has always been consistent that an EV isn't going to work for everyone at this point in time.)
We have 4 automobiles remaining in our household after our children have moved out to their own places.
I don't have a dog in this fight, but it always seems that the anti-EV crowd around here always wants to trumpet edge cases just to make an argument. (And especially Oy has always been consistent that an EV isn't going to work for everyone at this point in time.)
Every time. They’re comical. I mean look at Bronco man. If you’re not getting 500 miles to a tank, which he absolutely positively isn’t coming close to in a Bronco, then your car is apparently not for the working man. Apparently the working man commutes 250 miles each way daily.
You are right that I neglected the EV rate plans which discount the cost of recharging overnight (after midnight). These discounted rates make EV usage competitive with current gasoline prices.
But, you have to wait until midnight to start charging. I guess that can be automated with a timer. And, the recharge has to be done be 7am or whenever you hit the road. That’s probably good enough for most people.
I have to wonder what’s going to happen when the majority of people are plugging in at night, though. Doesn’t that make it a peak usage time?
Keep in mind that electricity prices are going to keep increasing, at least until a tipping point is reached for solar where enough rooftops have it and enough solar power farms are built.
Also, the current math is based on artificially high oil prices caused by Biden shutting down oil production and pipelines to deliberately drive up prices, combined with the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
Get rid of Biden, end the war, and suddenly you’re going to see oil prices dropping. During Trump, gasoline prices at the pump were approximately equivalent to 1970, when adjusted for inflation. Given our vast shale reserves, the potential is to see oil prices drop again to that level, and why shouldn’t they? Oil is an essential industrial commodity and jacking up the cost has caused terrible inflation.
That said, probably the world is better off not burning so much oil and gas, but the volatility of prices makes it a complicated decision to switch to EVs.
Again more bad info and BS - it costs me $15 to go from zero to 100% in highest cost area of CA, $5 in NV - about 300 miles. Gas is over $5/gal here - so that is less than 3 gallons (gets you 1 in NV) - what ICE gets 100 miles per gallon (let alone 300 mpg) - you can't stick to the reality that it is much less to fill an EV.
The car is set up to charge when the cost of electricity is low - it is even a setting. The low cost time is enough to h=get you Even if everyone was charging at night, that would be just a few % - EVs do not take as much electricity as you think. The estimates are that if every vehicle was an EV (likely over 50 years from now) - the total electricity use in the US would increase about 20%.
I agree with some of the rest but this is not the appropriate forum. Not everyone that drives EVs is a liberal.
That disqualifies me right there. I can't qualify because my AGI is too high.
Actually can still qualify through leasing.
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