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Old 12-13-2011, 06:32 PM
 
1,569 posts, read 2,045,585 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claudhopper View Post
The Patriot Act increases the government's surveillance powers in four areas
The Patriot Act increases the government's surveillance powers in four areas:
  1. Records searches. It expands the government's ability to look at records on an individual's activity being held by third parties. (Section 215)
  2. Secret searches. It expands the government's ability to search private property without notice to the owner. (Section 213)
  3. Intelligence searches. It expands a narrow exception to the Fourth Amendment that had been created for the collection of foreign intelligence information (Section 218).
  4. "Trap and trace" searches. It expands another Fourth Amendment exception for spying that collects "addressing" information about the origin and destination of communications, as opposed to the content (Section 214).
Surveillance Under the USA PATRIOT Act | American Civil Liberties Union
Ah, but it doesn't say anything about police not needing a warrant anymore to search premises.
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Old 12-13-2011, 06:32 PM
 
Location: The Brightest City On Earth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking2003 View Post
If they have a search warrant for the area they are flying over, then I don't have a problem with this. But I suspect there will be many drone flights without warrants.

Maybe people will shoot some of these invasive drones out of the sky.
The police do not need warrants to fly over. That falls under the "Plain Sight Doctrine" where, if illegal activity is in plain sight, a warrant is not needed.
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Old 12-13-2011, 06:33 PM
 
Location: Northern CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rimmerama View Post
Ah, but it doesn't say anything about police not needing a warrant anymore to search premises.
Did you see the part that says search without knowledge of the owner?
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Old 12-13-2011, 06:34 PM
 
Location: The Brightest City On Earth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
Faced with the possibility of Military cutbacks the manufacturers are looking for other markets for their expensive toys. I expect we will see a lot more of this. I also expect the drones will become much smaller and quieter to allow use in suburban and urban environments. I also expect some of the higher cost private detective agencies to acquire and use these devices in private disputes. Like hovering outside a motel window and documenting some fools infidelities or conducting industrial investigations. This will be a world of "Dark Angel" but without Jessie Alba.

As far as the rustlers are concerned the drone was a good idea but a Barret Rifle with a night vision scope would have been a permanent and cheaper solution to the thieves.
A drone cannot peer into a dwelling or through a window. It is not any different than having a police helicopter overhead.
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Old 12-13-2011, 06:34 PM
 
Location: Northern CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegas Joe View Post
The police do not need warrants to fly over. That falls under the "Plain Sight Doctrine" where, if illegal activity is in plain sight, a warrant is not needed.
The drone is like 10,000 feet into the air, that's not exactly plain sight.
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Old 12-13-2011, 06:37 PM
 
Location: Northern CA
12,770 posts, read 11,573,754 times
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from the link I posted above

Why the Patriot Act's expansion of records searches is unconstitutional
Section 215 of the Patriot Act violates the Constitution in several ways. It:
  • Violates the Fourth Amendment, which says the government cannot conduct a search without obtaining a warrant and showing probable cause to believe that the person has committed or will commit a crime.
  • Violates the First Amendment's guarantee of free speech by prohibiting the recipients of search orders from telling others about those orders, even where there is no real need for secrecy.
  • Violates the First Amendment by effectively authorizing the FBI to launch investigations of American citizens in part for exercising their freedom of speech.
  • Violates the Fourth Amendmentby failing to provide notice - even after the fact - to persons whose privacy has been compromised. Notice is also a key element of due process, which is guaranteed by the Fifth Amendment.
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Old 12-13-2011, 06:40 PM
 
Location: The Brightest City On Earth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claudhopper View Post
The drone is like 10,000 feet into the air, that's not exactly plain sight.
It means that the illegal activity is in plain sight. If the cops pull you over and a bag of marijuana and a machine gun are laying on your back seat, the police can use it as evidence without a warrant. If it is hidden and they search without your consent or a warrant, they cannot use it. So if you are growing a marijuana field in your back yard that is clearly visible from the air, it is in plain sight. It does not matter if the police use a helicopter, plane or drone to spot it. It would not even matter if the Police Chief was flying on a commercial plane and looked down and saw it. It is in "plain sight".
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Old 12-13-2011, 06:40 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claudhopper View Post
Did you see the part that says search without knowledge of the owner?
That doesn't mean they don't need a warrant.
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Old 12-13-2011, 06:45 PM
 
Location: The Brightest City On Earth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rimmerama View Post
Ah, but it doesn't say anything about police not needing a warrant anymore to search premises.
The police do not require a warrant to search anyplace outside the 4 walls of your home. They do have to have one to search in your home- even passively from outside your home. However anything outside the 4 walls of your home including the garbage you put outdoors can be searched by the police.

Supreme Court Limits High-Tech Surveillance by Police
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Old 12-13-2011, 06:49 PM
 
Location: The Brightest City On Earth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oz in SC View Post
CCTV aren't spying on you on your own land....

Drones have the capability of not only spying on people,but seeing through walls and into buildings.
No drones do not have the ability to look through walls into buildings. They cannot even see through clouds. With night vision FLIR they have very limited capabilities even in dark. And even if drones could see through walls, a warrant would be required.
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