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For the life of me, I don't understand why this is happening. I was born off Edmonson Avenue, near Harlem Avenue. Despite terrific setbacks, my family believed in nurturing the kids, in pursuing education, in working hard, in church activities, in obeying the law, in two-parent families to the extent that early deaths permitted, men who acted like men and supported their families, and so forth. As a result, my generation is in great shape. In my opinion, all of the "old-fashioned" things I just mentioned add up to a much more healthy culture than what we seem to be developing now.
I've seen a lot of kids in Baltimore who were raised by aunts and uncles. Many others were raised by grandparents and in some cases great grandparents. When the guardians are an aunt and uncle they are at least able to "keep up" with the kids but that becomes more difficult for older grandparents. Either way the kids tends to lack respect for the adults in their lives feel little obligation to follow the rules of their household.
When a child doesn't respect the closest family they have I don't expect them to respect anyone else. Of course we expect the family to take corrective action for the child's behavior, but that is easier said than done.
You could use negative reinforcement, but that often causes the child to feel threatend by authority figures. If that happens the child tends to react with fear and distrust, which in my opinion is the basis of most "ghetto culture" and shapes interaction with peers and adults alike. The other option is to use positive reinforcement, which could breed a sense of entitlement and self-worth that is far removed from reality. A child that expects to be rewarded for meeting the bare minimum requirements of society prone to tantrums and isn't motivated to work hard at anything. This second option is what I see far more often, because I see it from biological parents just as much as any other kind of legal guardian. It produced teenagers that are lazy and arrogant without any accomplishments to back up their pride.
And then of course their are kids who ARE raised by their biological parents, but the parents themselves suffer from the same character flaws I've described above. With role models like that, supplemented by what they learn from peers, it is easy to see why the youth of today act so different from the youth of your day.
For the life of me, I don't understand why this is happening. I was born off Edmonson Avenue, near Harlem Avenue. Despite terrific setbacks, my family believed in nurturing the kids, in pursuing education, in working hard, in church activities, in obeying the law, in two-parent families to the extent that early deaths permitted, men who acted like men and supported their families, and so forth. As a result, my generation is in great shape. In my opinion, all of the "old-fashioned" things I just mentioned add up to a much more healthy culture than what we seem to be developing now.
I can tell you why the poor whites are so ghetto. The liberals have been trying since the 1850s to break the connection between the poor whites and their better off racial brethren. They proposed relationships and group unity based on class, like Marx. Bob Dylan says as much in his "Ballad for Medgar Evers."
Well, fast forward to Bill Clinton and the PC movement and it appears that it finally worked. The Founding Fathers are now presented as highly flawed hypocrits, rather than visionary state builders. Columbus is now taught to kids as a privateer and slave trader rather as the bold explorer that discovered America. In short, the white racial identity, its heroes, its worth, has been systematically torn down in the education system and in the media, while every other group is now sacrosanct, having special heroes, months set aside for celebration, etc. No one seems to bother mentioning the misdeeds of the folk heros of the other races, or the races themselves. The animosity is reserved for the "white man" and all of his sins.
So now, rather than the poor white youth relating to, emulating, and finding a common bond with their better off white counterparts, they relate to the other members of their social class, the poor. Now, I have no doubt the misguided thought was that this new education paradigm would "raise up" the downtrodden of all races by giving them a shared voice, more political power, and a ladder to success, but the exact opposite has happened to poor white youth.
Most of them no longer are content having less, but still being proud in who they are and the work they do. No longer do they feel like they have the ability to climb the social ladder and live better than their parents. Instead, they have adopted the worst aspects of poor black city culture, the promotion of ill-gotten gain, extreme violence as a way to either gain respect or safe face, and the loathing of those better off than themselves.
In 1995, a pimped out Escalade full of black dudes in Cumberland dressed all in red would have sent shivers down the spines of the youth in town. They would have known they were different than these people, they would have known that the drug/gang lifestyle would lead them nowhere. They would have been wary of these people, because they were taught to be. And this is good (prepare for barage of insults thrown my way) because the spread of gang/drug/city culture is BAD for small towns like mine.
These days, poor white youth dress in all blood red or crip blue, tattoo up their necks, wear T-shirts 8 sizes too large, sell dime bags of smack to each other and what a surprise to see the crime rate go up with it. The PC movement didn't uplift any white people, but it sure drug alot of them down. I hope it worked out better for others.
Last edited by westsideboy; 04-28-2011 at 07:20 PM..
They didn't exist 15 years ago. Welcome to the wonderful 21st century where the dregs of society can have their culture glorified, emulated, and spread to new diverse groups!
HAHA well put - emulating all the wrong things.. I was once with my friend (from a very rough part of chicago) around monroe st and he was taken aback at the white thugs.
I will say though, with all of their problems (in the black and white communities), people in baltimore tend to be much friendlier than us DC folks. I've lived in the "hood" in both cities (e monument and milton in bmore, trinidad in dc), and people are generally more open and polite to strangers in baltimore..So I guess they'll at least say good evening before they knock me upside my head and take my wallet.
All things considered though, I am and always will be a huge fan of charm city, there's no place like it!
I can tell you why the poor whites are so ghetto. The liberals have been trying since the 1850s to break the connection between the poor whites and their better off racial brethren. They proposed relationships and group unity based on class, like Marx. Bob Dylan says as much in his "Ballad for Medgar Evers."
Well, fast forward to Bill Clinton and the PC movement and it appears that it finally worked. The Founding Fathers are now presented as highly flawed hypocrits, rather than visionary state builders. Columbus is now taught to kids as a privateer and slave trader rather as the bold explorer that discovered America. In short, the white racial identity, its heroes, its worth, has been systematically torn down in the education system and in the media, while every other group is now sacrosanct, having special heroes, months set aside for celebration, etc. No one seems to bother mentioning the misdeeds of the folk heros of the other races, or the races themselves. The animosity is reserved for the "white man" and all of his sins.
So now, rather than the poor white youth relating to, emulating, and finding a common bond with their better off white counterparts, they relate to the other members of their social class, the poor. Now, I have no doubt the misguided thought was that this new education paradigm would "raise up" the downtrodden of all races by giving them a shared voice, more political power, and a ladder to success, but the exact opposite has happened to poor white youth.
Most of them no longer are content having less, but still being proud in who they are and the work they do. No longer do they feel like they have the ability to climb the social ladder and live better than their parents. Instead, they have adopted the worst aspects of poor black city culture, the promotion of ill-gotten gain, extreme violence as a way to either gain respect or safe face, and the loathing of those better off than themselves.
In 1995, a pimped out Escalade full of black dudes in Cumberland dressed all in red would have sent shivers down the spines of the youth in town. They would have known they were different than these people, they would have known that the drug/gang lifestyle would lead them nowhere. They would have been wary of these people, because they were taught to be. And this is good (prepare for barage of insults thrown my way) because the spread of gang/drug/city culture is BAD for small towns like mine.
These days, poor white youth dress in all blood red or crip blue, tattoo up their necks, wear T-shirts 8 sizes too large, sell dime bags of smack to each other and what a surprise to see the crime rate go up with it. The PC movement didn't uplift any white people, but it sure drug alot of them down. I hope it worked out better for others.
Huh? You're saying that Liberals changed history books (that I'm sure these kids aren't reading, anyway) and now they're ghetto because of that? That there isn't a "White History Month" so kids are forced to emulate black thugs b/c they have nothing else to aspire to? That they don't have any historical role models so they turn to the streets?
Kids don't need historical role models. Sure - it's nice to learn about them, but they more need present-day role models. Man - I bet if you asked a young black kid hanging on the street who his role model is, he would say an athlete or a rap artist instead of Dr. King, probably one of the greatest role models anyone could have - and certainly no one has denigrated his historical importance. But back to present-day role models - - I agree with End-User. It's all about family, family, family. Or gosh - maybe a realllllly good teacher that bonds with that kid and stays in touch with them throughout their education (but even that sounds far-fetched, like a feel-good movie). And I agree with Hamish - - family enforcing certain values. Of course even the best families hatch some bad eggs - but for the most part, strong families produce strong kids that grow up to be strong adults. I'm just not connecting the dots with your argument that media and the education system has skewed history and hence more white kids these days are ghetto.
I can tell you why the poor whites are so ghetto. The liberals have been trying since the 1850s to break the connection between the poor whites and their better off racial brethren. They proposed relationships and group unity based on class, like Marx. Bob Dylan says as much in his "Ballad for Medgar Evers."
Well, fast forward to Bill Clinton and the PC movement and it appears that it finally worked. The Founding Fathers are now presented as highly flawed hypocrits, rather than visionary state builders. Columbus is now taught to kids as a privateer and slave trader rather as the bold explorer that discovered America. In short, the white racial identity, its heroes, its worth, has been systematically torn down in the education system and in the media, while every other group is now sacrosanct, having special heroes, months set aside for celebration, etc. No one seems to bother mentioning the misdeeds of the folk heros of the other races, or the races themselves. The animosity is reserved for the "white man" and all of his sins.
So now, rather than the poor white youth relating to, emulating, and finding a common bond with their better off white counterparts, they relate to the other members of their social class, the poor. Now, I have no doubt the misguided thought was that this new education paradigm would "raise up" the downtrodden of all races by giving them a shared voice, more political power, and a ladder to success, but the exact opposite has happened to poor white youth.
Most of them no longer are content having less, but still being proud in who they are and the work they do. No longer do they feel like they have the ability to climb the social ladder and live better than their parents. Instead, they have adopted the worst aspects of poor black city culture, the promotion of ill-gotten gain, extreme violence as a way to either gain respect or safe face, and the loathing of those better off than themselves.
In 1995, a pimped out Escalade full of black dudes in Cumberland dressed all in red would have sent shivers down the spines of the youth in town. They would have known they were different than these people, they would have known that the drug/gang lifestyle would lead them nowhere. They would have been wary of these people, because they were taught to be. And this is good (prepare for barage of insults thrown my way) because the spread of gang/drug/city culture is BAD for small towns like mine.
These days, poor white youth dress in all blood red or crip blue, tattoo up their necks, wear T-shirts 8 sizes too large, sell dime bags of smack to each other and what a surprise to see the crime rate go up with it. The PC movement didn't uplift any white people, but it sure drug alot of them down. I hope it worked out better for others.
I think that what you have written is correct, and I agree with you. But I would like to add the following additional component:
In my opinion, the quality of White leadership has dropped dramatically over the past 50 years, which may ALSO contribute to the lack of respect and identification that we see.
For example, kids of my era had just about complete and universal respect for people like Eisenhower, Stevenson, Dulles, Marshall, Lodge, Harriman, Dirkson, and so forth, whereas today I personally have nothing but contempt for G. W. Bush, Palin, Rove, Trump, Olberman, Bachmann, Gingrich, both Clintons, and pretty much the whole lot. In the business world, the same kind of pattern applies to, for example, General Electric (Edison v Welch), IBM (Watson v Palmisano), not to mention men like Lay and Madoff. The same for the Church -- just look at today's Episcopal clergy as an example. How could any normal young man respect or identify with these spineless people? Same for the Pharma industry -- Jonas Salk (who declined to patent his polio vaccine) vs today's ruthless money grubbers. On and on.
Again, I agree with you thoughts. Just extending with my own two cents worth (well, at least one cent?).
I think that what you have written is correct, and I agree with you. But I would like to add the following additional component:
In my opinion, the quality of White leadership has dropped dramatically over the past 50 years, which may ALSO contribute to the lack of respect and identification that we see.
For example, kids of my era had just about complete and universal respect for people like Eisenhower, Stevenson, Dulles, Marshall, Lodge, Harriman, Dirkson, and so forth, whereas today I personally have nothing but contempt for G. W. Bush, Palin, Rove, Trump, Olberman, Bachmann, Gingrich, both Clintons, and pretty much the whole lot. In the business world, the same kind of pattern applies to, for example, General Electric (Edison v Welch), IBM (Watson v Palmisano), not to mention men like Lay and Madoff. The same for the Church -- just look at today's Episcopal clergy as an example. How could any normal young man respect or identify with these spineless people? Same for the Pharma industry -- Jonas Salk (who declined to patent his polio vaccine) vs today's ruthless money grubbers. On and on.
Again, I agree with you thoughts. Just extending with my own two cents worth (well, at least one cent?).
I think what you both are saying is applicable across the board..unfortunately when it comes to some of our youth culture in the 21st Century..."thuggery" in an of itself is now a sub culture that is adopted by a variety of races for a variety of reasons.. from rich kids in the suburbs to poor kids in the ghetto. Some groups or families have the ability to guide their kids out of it.. with the proper family support as you have indicated. Others.. are unable to compete with "the streets" and the allure of quick money, fast life, or peer pressure. "Thuggery" is now part of our popular culture (sub culture) as is womanizing and other social ills. Turn on the TV(reality tv) or watch a movie and you are likely to see some of the same things. I am not out to vilify pop culture or go all Tipper Gore on the music industry ...but as both of you have already articulated.. without that balance or reality check provided by a stable network of familiy and friends.. many of our youth become lost
I have been panhandled and accosted by white thugs in Pigtown before. Warning...don't develop a false sense of security just because you're in a white hood. It's still the ghetto and they're still thugs.
Huh? You're saying that Liberals changed history books (that I'm sure these kids aren't reading, anyway) and now they're ghetto because of that? That there isn't a "White History Month" so kids are forced to emulate black thugs b/c they have nothing else to aspire to? That they don't have any historical role models so they turn to the streets?
Kids don't need historical role models. Sure - it's nice to learn about them, but they more need present-day role models. Man - I bet if you asked a young black kid hanging on the street who his role model is, he would say an athlete or a rap artist instead of Dr. King, probably one of the greatest role models anyone could have - and certainly no one has denigrated his historical importance. But back to present-day role models - - I agree with End-User. It's all about family, family, family. Or gosh - maybe a realllllly good teacher that bonds with that kid and stays in touch with them throughout their education (but even that sounds far-fetched, like a feel-good movie). And I agree with Hamish - - family enforcing certain values. Of course even the best families hatch some bad eggs - but for the most part, strong families produce strong kids that grow up to be strong adults. I'm just not connecting the dots with your argument that media and the education system has skewed history and hence more white kids these days are ghetto.
I don't think anybody can exist in a cultural vaccuum, everybody needs somebody to relate too. The intellectual destruction of the white racial identity is a cottage industry among liberal intellectuals in higher education. Literally dozens of books have been written on the subject. Nobody seems to look at the bigger picture that all identity is a social construct from individual to family, community, race, ethncity, etc.
Into this vaccuum must come something and I think class identity has replaced it. Just like Marx would have wanted. White kids would rather be like Ja-Rule than George Washington. This wasn't true 15 years ago. I am the perfect age to have to been in school under the "old way" and then watch it change to the "new way." I also have seen it in the media.
For a great example, go back about another decade to the mid-80s and watch "Footloose" about rebellious white kids. It is laughable today.
For what it is worth, everyone else's posts have been true as well, this is just what I see as the "big picture" behind the cultural change. It is top down.
The intellectual destruction of the white racial identity is a cottage industry among liberal intellectuals in higher education. Literally dozens of books have been written on the subject.
I wasn't going to say any more as I have already said too much, probably more than I actually know, but I can't resist as you have touched one of my hot buttons.
What you say here is so true, and so sad.
Despite our shortcomings, White men have been at the forefront of the spread of freedom and civilization by insisting on the rule of law. Furthermore, we have also been at the top of the game in the advancement of science, medicine, public health, literature, art, scholarship, invention, technology, engineering, mathematics, farming, higher education, you name it right across the board.
And yet we have become (so it seems to me) the bad guys in the eyes of the University (until they want some money from us) and in the eyes of Hollywood.
The financial gap between the poor — the middle class — the wealthy — and the obscenely wealthy has been growing ever since the days of Reagan. Don't blame the liberals. Blame the Republicans and their corporate buddies who have shipped most manufacturing jobs overseas and are currently weakening the social safety net. What good is a high school diploma for a kid in the inner city? Where is he/she going to get a job?
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