Homeland Houses For Sale (Baltimore: condo, townhouses, job market)

[Tallybalt]

Originally Posted by Digger 68

I am trying to figure out how north of Hunt Valley is not as desirable. Since I have lived here my entire life the entire area has become much more desirable.
Especially north. Hereford was considered bumpkinville when I went to Dulaney. Not so anymore. That entire area was considered redneckville. And many of them were proud of it!
(Half of Dulaney looks like it was built during the cold war in Soviet Russia, and the other half a hundred years ago.)
Why if the area isn't so desirable they keep building houses in bizarre locations and selling them for half a million dollars? Because they are new.
For fun go to Hunt Valley Town center in the spring, or fall, and go down to Towson Town Center, and compare the types of people you see in both places.
Greenspring Valley isn't desirable anymore......compared to what, the city.
And then you have Falls Road.

That area I referenced is right next to a dump. Who would want to spend there. No thanks. Somebody from New York where the cost would be much higher.

Half this area has become New York Boston South.

People were paying 400-500k for your typical five bedroom brick colonial in Monkton or Phoenix in the 1990s. That was expensive by Baltimore standards for the time. I remember these prices well because many of our children's friends lived out there.

Today the same house goes for around 650? Maybe slightly more, maybe slightly less. There are certainly more expensive and cheaper properties but if you look at each category of house prices the situation is similar enough. The county north of Hunt Valley has not appreciated well over the past 20 years. It's areas closer to I-83 that has done well.

You should speak with a realtor who has the numbers. I've seen the listings of sales and had frank discussions with realtors who specialize in the valleys as we periodically flirt with the idea of buying a few acres for solitude and greenery, and that is what they say. Greenspring Valley is not cheap, but prices have not appreciated well. Inflation has dug away at the value of the houses. In other words, a house that sold for $1 million in the Greenspring Valley in 2005 likely will sell for the same today or just slightly more, not enough to keep up with inflation. People were paying premium for multiple acre properties a long way from I-83 in Butler or outer Monkton or Hereford. Today? Not so much. Their children aren't interested in these properties. In fact, we came close to putting an offer on a property off Greenspring Valley Road in the late 1990s but decided to stay put because it would have required cashing out a substantial portion of our investment portfolio, and looking back I'm very pleased we walked away because that money remained in the market and has far surpassed any appreciation in the house we might have gained.

Interestingly enough, suburban Washington is showing the same issues. Very desirable suburbs like Potomac and Great Falls were sought after and sold for premium in 1990s and the early 2000s, but have flatlined ever since and realtors all say it's because younger generations simply don't want to live that far out. What has exploded in value are closer in suburbs like Chevy Chase or Arlington, and the district itself of course.

[Digger 68]

Young people are not buying half a million dollar plus houses. And they weren't 25 years ago either.
Yes, they are moving into the VIBRANT CITIES. IF THEY CAN AFFORD IT. And it's been like that for a while.
Young affluent families want to move out here. 83 cuts right through Cockeysville. It's always been affluent in north, and west Cockeysville. But not going up into Hereford. Yeah, Monkton is starting to get Rural. Phoenix is rural, but not like it was. Ashland had an area that looked like a wild west town. And the people that lived there almost acted like it. Not anymore.
I will talk to my Father who sold real estate while he worked for the Fed on the side.
He will say what most of us should know. The economy was rolling in the 90's, and wages were rolling along with it. Not so anymore. AND TAXES WERE LOWER. We are getting nailed. And then the high dollar effect. How many expensive houses really gain value. The market is limited, who affords them.
No matter how they try to put lipstick on a pig the economic numbers out there are not as great as the talking heads would like us to believe.
A lot of the larger houses in a place like Monkton were built during that second housing boom of the 80's. The money has always been here, and it keeps coming here from up north in NY, and Bean Town.
They are not stopping building houses on anything they can, and in really oddball places. And people keep buying them.

[Tallybalt]

Originally Posted by Digger 68

Young people are not buying half a million dollar plus houses. And they weren't 25 years ago either.
Yes, they are moving into the VIBRANT CITIES. IF THEY CAN AFFORD IT. And it's been like that for a while.
Young affluent families want to move out here. 83 cuts right through Cockeysville. It's always been affluent in north, and west Cockeysville. But not going up into Hereford. Yeah, Monkton is starting to get Rural. Phoenix is rural, but not like it was. Ashland had an area that looked like a wild west town. And the people that lived there almost acted like it. Not anymore.
I will talk to my Father who sold real estate while he worked for the Fed on the side.
He will say what most of us should know. The economy was rolling in the 90's, and wages were rolling along with it. Not so anymore. AND TAXES WERE LOWER. We are getting nailed. And then the high dollar effect. How many expensive houses really gain value. The market is limited, who affords them.
No matter how they try to put lipstick on a pig the economic numbers out there are not as great as the talking heads would like us to believe.
A lot of the larger houses in a place like Monkton were built during that second housing boom of the 80's. The money has always been here, and it keeps coming here from up north in NY, and Bean Town.
They are not stopping building houses on anything they can, and in really oddball places. And people keep buying them.

You seem to have a narrow view for what young people will or will not do. Or what constitutes young people. To me that would be everything from people right out of college to couples in their 30s with young children. Plenty of them are spending half a million or more on houses. And did so 25 years ago (adjusting for inflation). There are several young families who have moved onto our street in the last few years who have paid well over 500k for their houses (Baltimore City).

North County was pretty settled in the 1990s. A lot of new "executive" housing was built in Jacksonville, Phoenix, Monkton, Hereford and Sparks in the mid to late 1990s and a fair number of large, somewhat tacky, builder-grade "mansions" as well. These properties, when you measure them against the CBI inflation calculator and the stock market, have not necessarily held value well for the aforementioned reasons I listed.

You are the first person to talk about New York money or Philadelphia money migrating to the Baltimore suburbs. I'm not sure how valid that is. Are there people who have relocated for work? Sure. But not outside the ordinary (I'm sure the flow in the opposite direction is just as meaningful). Philadelphia is also not an expensive market, it is perhaps slightly more so than Baltimore but barely so, so I doubt there is wealth flowing to northern Baltimore County from Philadelphia when they have their own very nice suburbs and semi-rural areas.

You may also want to keep in mind that people are paying less taxes today than in the 1990s, following the Bush and now Trump tax cuts.

[Digger 68]

Again, I have lived here for decades. To funny. I do have a narrow of view of young people because the ones that start a family want to live in the burbs. Not in the city.
Who the hell comes out of collage in the 90's and has the money to buy a half a million dollar house.
Uh, what do federal taxes have to do with property taxes in Maryland. As usual somebody on here has a narrow view.

Ultimately back to what I posted that area in Guilford is right next to the hood. Why would wealth want to live down there. No thanks.

[BMoreJuice]

Originally Posted by Digger 68

Again, I have lived here for decades. To funny. I do have a narrow of view of young people because the ones that start a family want to live in the burbs. Not in the city.
Who the hell comes out of collage in the 90's and has the money to buy a half a million dollar house.
Uh, what do federal taxes have to do with property taxes in Maryland. As usual somebody on here has a narrow view.

Ultimately back to what I posted that area in Guilford is right next to the hood. Why would wealth want to live down there. No thanks.

Baltimore folks tend to not be phased about living in close proximity to the hood. Guilford folks are no exception.

[Tallybalt]

Originally Posted by Digger 68

Again, I have lived here for decades. To funny. I do have a narrow of view of young people because the ones that start a family want to live in the burbs. Not in the city.
Who the hell comes out of collage in the 90's and has the money to buy a half a million dollar house.
Uh, what do federal taxes have to do with property taxes in Maryland. As usual somebody on here has a narrow view.

Ultimately back to what I posted that area in Guilford is right next to the hood. Why would wealth want to live down there. No thanks.

There are young families living in the city and happy to live in the city. The majority do move to the suburbs but I suspect you're blinded by your prejudices. You should take a look around the waterfront neighborhood and stand outside Roland Park Elementary when school lets out and see the hordes of young, freshly scrubbed kids and their parents. Walk around Hampden and see the scores of young artsy hipster families rehabbing the houses.

500k is not that much money for a house these days. It's unlikely that someone right out of college would spend that much on a property without parental assistance. But by the time they're 30, there's a decent cohort who are spending that much and even more. Doctors, lawyers, financial professionals, corporate executives, who all exist in sizeable numbers in the Baltimore area, can afford to spend that much.

Property taxes in Maryland are not that high for a midsized metro area. Baltimore City is the exception. For high property taxes you need to look at New Jersey or New York. Now those are stunningly high. You also did not make it clear in your earlier post you were talking about property taxes and not federal taxes.

[hooligan]

Originally Posted by Tallybalt

...Property taxes in Maryland are not that high for a midsized metro area. Baltimore City is the exception. For high property taxes you need to look at New Jersey or New York. Now those are stunningly high. You also did not make it clear in your earlier post you were talking about property taxes and not federal taxes.

This chart has Maryland at #31 in the country (with #1 being the lowest effective tax rate), so yeah, not bad.

https://wallethub.com/edu/states-wit...y-taxes/11585/

[Digger 68]

Originally Posted by hooligan

This chart has Maryland at #31 in the country (with #1 being the lowest effective tax rate), so yeah, not bad.

https://wallethub.com/edu/states-wit...y-taxes/11585/

Overall 12th. https://wallethub.com/edu/states-wit...-burden/20494/

Yeah, only 29 States and DC have a lower tax rate.

Still, nobody has answered the original question. And they won't.

Oh and this prejudiced read from vox for somebody that doesn't get it in this thread.

https://www.vox.com/2017/6/21/158155...amilies-cities

[james777]

Vox was started a few years ago to bash republicans and conservative thinking. It stayed true to its mission. Vox will train you to think like a liberal idiot.

[pappjohn]

As long as democrats rule the city, property taxes will go up until the people revolt as they are now in in France. Most people in Baltimore don't pay any property taxes though as they get subsidized housing. But those that do, will regret buying in the city.