Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Sports > Baseball
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 03-27-2013, 05:00 PM
 
Location: Albuquerque, NM
13,285 posts, read 15,304,138 times
Reputation: 6658

Advertisements

http://www.hardballtimes.com/images/...erek_Jeter.pdf

30 pages of stats and graphs discussing how Jeter's 2012 season was an aberration and, in fact, continued the precipitous decline he's been showing in recent years.

If 30 pages sound like a bit much...

...here's the Cliff's Notes

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-27-2013, 06:30 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
48,564 posts, read 24,122,692 times
Reputation: 21239
This is the other side of the same pathology which has elevated Jeter to such a lofty status. I suppose that it is natural that debunking efforts will typically target those who seem to have been the most overrated, but the extent of this particular effort hints of personalities which cannot abide the idea of Jeter receiving any undue credit.

I do not dispute their evidence or conclusions, but I do question their premise that Jeter's mini revival in '12 has everyone thinking that he is back in his prime. Aging superstars sometimes do turn in last hurrah spikes, but I'm unaware of any who then went on to keep it up as they got even older.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-29-2013, 01:07 PM
 
Location: NY
9,130 posts, read 20,012,483 times
Reputation: 11707
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
This is the other side of the same pathology which has elevated Jeter to such a lofty status. I suppose that it is natural that debunking efforts will typically target those who seem to have been the most overrated, but the extent of this particular effort hints of personalities which cannot abide the idea of Jeter receiving any undue credit.

I do not dispute their evidence or conclusions, but I do question their premise that Jeter's mini revival in '12 has everyone thinking that he is back in his prime. Aging superstars sometimes do turn in last hurrah spikes, but I'm unaware of any who then went on to keep it up as they got even older.
The only example I can think of would be Barry Bonds, but we all know why that was...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-29-2013, 02:30 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
48,564 posts, read 24,122,692 times
Reputation: 21239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Checkered24 View Post
The only example I can think of would be Barry Bonds, but we all know why that was...
I had thought of the Bonds exception, but realized that if I mentioned it I would also have to raise the steroids issue and I didn't want this thread veering off onto that path.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-31-2013, 09:01 PM
 
Location: Long Island,New York
8,164 posts, read 15,144,066 times
Reputation: 2534
Obviously as players get older they can show signs of their past but most don't get better or maintain their abilities for the long haul. Mariano Rivera might be one of the closest players to keeping it going but he has been a little more prone to injuries as he has aged. Whats not taken into consideration is what Jeter does as a leader and how he influences others on the team. With age comes experience and maybe he can mold his replacement.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-01-2013, 10:46 AM
 
Location: NY
9,130 posts, read 20,012,483 times
Reputation: 11707
Rivera is a good example.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
I had thought of the Bonds exception, but realized that if I mentioned it I would also have to raise the steroids issue and I didn't want this thread veering off onto that path.
Maybe to stay clear of that issue (also why I didn't mention it by name) I could throw Satchel Paige out there. Of course, it is a little hard to analyze since he never got into the big leagues until his 40's.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-01-2013, 11:12 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
48,564 posts, read 24,122,692 times
Reputation: 21239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Checkered24 View Post
Rivera is a good example.



Maybe to stay clear of that issue (also why I didn't mention it by name) I could throw Satchel Paige out there. Of course, it is a little hard to analyze since he never got into the big leagues until his 40's.
Willie McCovey turned in a classic example of the last hurrah spike. His last full season all star year with the Giants was 1970 at age 33. Then he started to get hurt a lot and his performance dwindled over the next few years and at age 36 they traded him to San Diego. There he had an okay year, a bad year and then a terrible year at age 38 where the Padres released him, he was picked up by the A's who also released him and it looked like his career was over.

The Giants resigned him in '77 and everyone was viewing this as a courtesy sort of thing...Willie will pinch hit or be a good clubhouse influence, but no one thought he still had playing value. But at age 39 McCovey posted an .867 OPS with 28 bombs in 141 games, the most he had played in a season since 1969, his MVP year.

Then at age 40, with expectations raised somewhat, McCovey turned back into a pumpkin and posted a .722 OPS. He refused to retire despite numerous hints from the club and the media and was around for half a season in '79 before his .586 OPS caused his retirement.

I am anticipating that pumpkin effect for Jeter this year.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Sports > Baseball
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top